| Nicolas,
Your idea cuts through the unnecessary maze. I like it also because it does not make me think of this question every time I put my hand on the piano keyboard which is tuned like …. what? Can you tell me?
Best, Pierre Pardon my typos. It's Apple's fault. On Sep 15, 2023, at 00:02, Nicolas Grimault <nicolas.grimault@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear,
As previously said, auditory band is a continuum and could be
defined at any poit of the cochlea, I think the original question
should be reformulated as:
"How maby independent auditory bands do we have within
the range of audibility?"
Best.
Nicolas.
Le 15/09/2023 à 06:17, James Johnston a
écrit :
A "critical band" or better an "ERB" is defined at any
point on the cochlea.
The "number" of them is therefore an odd question. If you
stack ERB's next to each other, that's a more meaningful
question, but even then what happens at low frequencies is
still under some debate the last I've seen.
So, maybe the question of "translate ERB to Frequency Range" is
a better question, and then you can stack them end to end if you
must, but speaking as someone who has written a lot of different
masking threshold calculations for various audio codecs, you
really need to have much finer resolution than that, and then
handle the "overlap" so that for any given frequency, you're
close to using an ERB centered at that frequency. Even
'centered' is a bit of a tricky question since you'd like to
have some invariance of shape across different centers, but
that's more than I want to write at 11PM tonight. :)
The number of 24 CB refers (probably)
to the Bark scale (Zwicker 1961, JASA). But it
covers only the frequencies upto 15.5 kHz. So you
need a few more to get to 20 kHz…
Best,
Cas Smits
Van:
AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Namens Richard F. Lyon
Verzonden: 14 September 2023 07:21
Aan: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Onderwerp: Re: Number of critical bands in
human hearing?
I think critical bands are not
discrete countable things.
But if you want to divide up
the range of 20 Hz to 20 kHz into CB-size bands,
then there should be an answer, though it will be
more at low sound levels than at high sound
levels. 24 sounds plausible for moderate sound
level. If you count ERBs at low level, you'll get
more than that, maybe about 40.
Dear
all,
In
teaching an undergrad course on hearing
science the students have asked, how many
critical bands are there in normal healthy
hearing? The text that we use says that
there are 24. If I ask ChatGPT it also
cites Fletcher and Munson’s estimation of
24, but what would it know. . .
Am I
right in suspecting that this may have
been revised upwards at some stage (?).
Is the collective wisdom of the list able
to help with this or point to an
authoritative source?
Cheers
David
David Jackson Morris,
PhD, LTCL
Associate
Professor/Lektor
University of
Copenhagen/Københavns Universitet
Speech Pathology and
Audiology/Audiologopædi
Department of Nordic Studies
and Linguistics/Institut for Nordiske
Studier og Sprogvidenskab
Emil Holms Kanal 2
2300 Copenhagen S/København
S
Department
Homepage
-
Sådan
beskytter vi persondata
______________________________________________________
AmsterdamUMC disclaimer : www.amsterdamumc.org/disclaimers
--
James D. (jj) Johnston
Chief Scientist, Immersion Networks
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicolas Grimault
Cognition Auditive et Psychoacoustique
UMR CNRS 5292 Centre de Recherche en Neurosciences de Lyon
Centre Hospitalier Le Vinatier - Bâtiment 462 - Neurocampus
95 boulevard Pinel
69675 Bron Cedex
France
Vocal: 33 (0)4 81 10 65 73
Email: nicolas.grimault@xxxxxxx
___.-----.______
___.-----'::::::::::::::::`---.___ _ _
_.--._ (:::;,-----'~~~~~`----::::::::::.. `-. ,-(|)--(|)-.
_ .'_---. `--.__ `~~' `~`--.:::::`.. `.. \_ .. _/
; `-.____.-' ' {0} ` `--._`---.____ `:::::::: : :: \______/
:_^ ~ `--.___ `----.__`----.____ ~::::::.`;': V V ____
:`--.__,-----.___( `---.___ `---.___ `----.___ ~|;:,' : | `.^^`. /^,--`
`-.___,---.____ _, ._ `----.____ `----.__ `-----.___;--' ; : \^^^\ (^^\
`---' `. `._ `)) , , , `----.____.----.____ --' :| |^^^| _,-._ \^^\
/ `,--.\ `.` ` ` ` , , , _.-- `-----'|' (^^^^\ __ _,-'^^^^^`. _,'^^)
_.~~~~~~._____ __./'_/' : .:----.___ ` ` ` `` .-' , , :::' \^^^^`._,-'^^`-._.'^^^^__^^^^ `--'^^^_/
///--\; ____ : :' ____`---.___.--:: , ` ` ::' \^^^^^ ^^^_^^^^^^^_,-' `.^^^^^^^^_/
`' _.' ( /______ ( `-._ `-._,-' `.____,-' `-.__.' `-.___.'
.-' __.-// /_______---' `-._ `.
~~~ ///// `' ~~~~~~ ~~ ______; ::.
`'`' /_______ _.'
, ~~~ ~~~~~~~~ /___.---' --__
` ~~~
___ ___
( _< >_ ) c~~p ,---------.
// \\ ,---'oo ) \
\\___..___// ( O O )/
`-( )-' `=^=' /
_|__|_ \ , . /
/_|__|_\ \\ |-----'| /
/_|__|_\ ||__| |_|__|
/_\__/_\
\ || / _)
|| ( )
\\___//
`---'
-------------------------------------------------------------------
|