Re: [AUDITORY] arXiv web of trust

Les, Mario, and other active participants in this discussion,

Well, as interesting as it might be for those actively or passively involved in this exchange, my reaction is that all this is miles away from my personal history and therefore at best marginally interesting to me. Few of you might know that I came into acoustics and the study of hearing from the left field, also without any personal or family money to support my education and my life after getting a degree. The postdiction (prediction of what should have happened 50+ years ago) of my life course would have been highly unlikely to point to the career I managed to get even without pushing (which is pretty foreign to my personality). So, as enlightening as the discussion is, I find little personal interest in it. My conclusion is that if somebody has as genuine of an interest in the field and determination as I had then, she/he would be able to get there, do research, publish papers, meet with and talk to colleagues who know more, and eventually succeed.

Again, I am writing this without the wish to receive any accolade. Just a personal reflection..

Best wishes,
Pierre

Pardon my typos. It's Apple's fault.

On Jun 7, 2023, at 21:08, Les Bernstein <lbernstein@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

I think it's important to establish the DC-level, sea-level, the "reference level." The societal inequities that exist are not because I and other "white guys" (i.e., the "Richards" in the cartoon) were given some undeserved privilege but, rather, because some minorities and cultures (i.e., the Paula's in the cartoon) have been unfairly denied their due. I think it very much matters where one perceives the unfairness to be.

I find the self-loathing concept of "privilege" to be misguided folly I will not apologize for what I have accomplished and for what I have. It was not handed to me. For those who still don't understand, I'll say it again. The social injustice lies in the fact that the less fortunate (often minority cultures and ethnicities) have been denied the opportunity and dignity they deserve as human beings. That is where we must focus our efforts for change.

It is trivially true to say that, in any field, in any vocation, in any hierarchy, there are biases that come into play. That's because they are all human endeavors. Matters of degree count! In our field of auditory science-- and this is after all the Auditory List-- others here have asserted that discriminatory factors must be at play to a substantial degree. I think that is patently false and my observations across decades support that belief.

Some of you have acted as "scientists" drawing conclusions on the basis of essentially no evidence when you have implied that I, personally, must have a myopic view because you assume that I'm just another fairly successful old white guy. Shame on you. You know nothing of my history and that of my family. You commit the genetic fallacy, that of evaluating an idea on the basis of who generated the idea, rather than on the merits of the idea, per se. In so doing, you commit the very sin that you decry so vociferously in self-righteous fashion!

I suggest that you read this excellent work by the brilliant linguist, John McWhorter.

This began as a discussion of open-access dissemination of scientific results. I hope, if this thread continues at all, it will return to that topic, a topic that is most appropriate for the Auditory List.

Les

On 6/4/2023 9:24 PM, Svirsky, Mario wrote:

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I have a small contribution to the very interesting conversation between Matt Winn and Les Bernstein.

I recommend those of you who are also interested in this conversation watch “Picture a Scientist”, which is on Netflix in the U.S. until June 12. It is a fascinating description of some of the obstacles faced by women in general and black women in particular, in academia.

I agree with Les that, ideally, status as a researcher should be earned by a person’s contributions to their field. The problem is that in the real world women get fewer resources and less recognition than men given the same intellect and productivity. Ditto for minorities. “Picture a Scientist” doesn’t even get into the issues of class, nationality, or able bodiedness, which are also important.

Or instead of watching Picture a Scientist (which, after all, will take you 103 minutes), you could invest just two minutes in reading the cartoon below. About the concept of having things handed to you on a plate (or “being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple”, a quote attributed to Barry Switzer, 1986).

Mario A. Svirsky, Ph.D.

Noel L. Cohen Professor of Hearing Science,

Professor of Otolaryngology (School of Medicine) and Neural Science

Vice-Chairman for Research

Department of Otolaryngology

Address:

Dept. of Otolaryngology                     Phone (direct):    212-263-7217

NYU Langone Medical Center              Fax:                    212-263-7604 or 212-263-8257

550 First Ave., NBV-5E5

New York, NY 10016

Pronouns: he, him, his

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