Re: [AUDITORY] AUDITORY Digest - 17 Nov 2017 to 18 Nov 2017 (#2017-302)

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There are 4 messages totaling 475 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Research fellow in spatial audio at Univ. of Surrey, UK - closing Monday!
2. Registration for SpIN 2018 comes alive!
3. Converting audio file from WAV to MP3 changes file duration. Why?
4. workshop on brain stimulation and neural oscillations

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:17:09 +0000
From: Philip JB Jackson <p.jackson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Research fellow in spatial audio at Univ. of Surrey, UK - closing Monday!
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--- Apologies for cross posting ---

Dear list,

RESEARCH FELLOW IN SPATIAL AUDIO
Department of Electrical & Electronic Engineering
Location: Guildford
Salary: =A330,688 to =A338,833 per annum
Fixed Term Post: Full Time
Closing Date: Monday 20 November 2017
Interview Date: w/c 4 Sept
URL: https://jobs.surrey.ac.uk/Vacancy.aspx?ref=3D086217

Applications are invited for a Research Fellow to work full-time on the EPS=
RC Programme
Grant, S3A: Future Spatial Audio for an immersive listener experience at ho=
me
(http://www.s3a-spatialaudio.org/). The post is to investigate techniques f=
or multi-
channel audio with visual information in the context of object-based spatia=
l audio
production.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Philip

--
Dr PJB Jackson | Machine Audition | CVSSP | University of Surrey |
<http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/P.Jackson/><http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk=
/Personal/P.Jackson/>www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/P.Jackson/<http://persona=
l.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/P.Jackson/>

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<p></p>
<div>    --- Apologies for cross posting ---</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dear list,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>RESEARCH FELLOW IN SPATIAL AUDIO</div>
<div>Department of Electrical & Electronic Engineering</div>
<div>Location: Guildford</div>
<div>Salary: =A330,688 to =A338,833 per annum</div>
<div>Fixed Term Post: Full Time</div>
<div>Closing Date: Monday 20 November 2017</div>
<div>Interview Date: w/c 4 Sept</div>
<div>URL: https://jobs.surrey.ac.uk/Vacancy.aspx?ref=3D086217</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Applications are invited for a Research Fellow to work full-time on th=
e EPSRC Programme </div>
<div>Grant, S3A: Future Spatial Audio for an immersive listener experience =
at home </div>
<div>(http://www.s3a-spatialaudio.org/). The post is to investigate techniq=
ues for multi-</div>
<div>channel audio with visual information in the context of object-based s=
patial audio </div>
<div>production.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.</div>
<div>Philip</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<p></p>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div id=3D"x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12pt; col=
or:#000000; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
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or:#000000; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
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mojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColor=
Emoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols,He=
lvetica,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",=
NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiS=
ymbols">
<div class=3D"x_BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t">
<div class=3D"x_PlainText"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_PlainText"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33); font-family:=
wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe UI","Segoe WP",Tahoma,Arial,s=
ans-serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:13.3333px">--</span><br style=3D"color=
:rgb(33,33,33); font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe UI","S=
egoe WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:13.3333px"=
>
<span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33); font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Se=
goe UI","Segoe WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont; =
font-size:13.3333px">Dr PJB Jackson | Machine Audition | CVSSP | University=
of Surrey |</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33); font-family:wf_segoe-u=
i_normal,"Segoe UI","Segoe WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,=
serif,EmojiFont; font-size:13.3333px">
<a href="" href="http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/P.Jackson/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/P.Jackson/" target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" id=3D"LPNoLP" style=3D"font-family:wf_segoe-u=
i_normal,"Segoe UI","Segoe WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,=
serif,EmojiFont; font-size:13.3333px"></a><a href="" href="http://www.ee.surrey.a" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ee.surrey.a=
c.uk/Personal/P.Jackson/" class=3D"x_OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPNoLP"></a><a href=""> =3D"http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/P.Jackson/" class=3D"x_OWAAuto=
Link" id=3D"LPNoLP">www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/P.Jackson/</a><br style=3D=
"color:rgb(33,33,33); font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe UI",&=
quot;Segoe WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont; font-size:13.3=
333px">
<br>
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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 14:27:22 +0000
From: Bill Whitmer <Bill.Whitmer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Registration for SpIN 2018 comes alive!
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Let all who relish the challenges of challenging communication rejoice!

Registration is now open for the 10th Annual Speech In Noise Workshop, 11-1=
2 January 2018 in warm-and-sunny-in-spirit Glasgow.
http://store.nottingham.ac.uk/conferences-and-events/conferences/schools-an=
d-departments/medicine/speech-in-noise-workshop

*** REGISTRATION DEADLINE : 10 December 2017 ***

It's two days of wall-to-wall research, with over fifty posters covering th=
e walls of Glasgow's glorious Trades Hall, and a dozen plenary talks by som=
e of the brightest boffins in the speech-in-noise business: Tim Griffiths, =
Gaston Hilkhuysen, Edmund Lalor, Ning Ma, Riikka M=F6tt=F6nen, Silke Paulma=
nn, Brechtje Post, Tobias Reichenbach, Michael Richter, Lea-Maria Schmitt, =
Carine Signoret and Outi Tuomainen. Topics range from socioeconomic factors=
in communication difficulty to new biomarkers of listening effort, motivat=
ion and understanding. So much to hear and see. Have you ever wondered what=
speech enhancement technologies might come from moths? Step right up!

More information, including the provisional programme, are available at the=
workshop's webpage: http://spin2018.eu=20

Haste ye here!

The Organising Team
Antje Heinrich
Bill Whitmer
& Etienne Gaudrain

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
and may contain confidential information. If you have received this
message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.=20

Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this
message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the
author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the
University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
permitted by UK legislation.

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:47:44 +0100
From: Brian FG Katz <katz@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Converting audio file from WAV to MP3 changes file duration. Why?
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I would be *very* wary of and audio/visual/interface timing using such
protocol. For example, different sound card hardware configurations will
have different playback buffer lengths and latencies. So that there can =
be
100ms or more delay between sending the play command and sound actually
being played. You cannot control this from the browser, and it is =
doubtful
you can even access this driver information. I would seriously avoid =
such a
protocol for anything where timing is important, and where you want to
compare results between individuals. A common hardware setup is usually
required for such type of test. Worse yet, the delay for playing can =
vary
during an experiment under some OS, as if there is sufficient silence
preceding the sound card can "go to sleep" meaning there is an =
additional
wake-up delay, or loss of the first several buffers. This is something I
have clearly observed under Windows, where we needed to play a "silent"
track continuously to avoid...

As others have said, any use of lossy compression (i.e. MPEG) should be
avoided in research unless you are actually studying the effects of
compression. In the case of multichannel audio, studies have shown
detrimental effects of compression on localization cues as a function of
codec and bitrate. These include interaural time delays between =
channels,
meaning that inter-channel *timing* cues are altered in some compression
methodologies.

The issue of the audio file length varying in size (where MPG length =
will
need to a multiple of the encoder block size, while WAV doesn't have =
this
limitation) will have negligible influence (unless your timing is based =
on a
loop playback counter) when compared to these other more important =
points.

I would think you need to do a good series of protocol evaluations on
different systems to see what the range of timing errors can be, between
browsers, OS (including smartphones), current CPU load, audio hardware, =
etc.
It may be that the timing errors you may have exceed the scale of the
phenomenon you are trying to study.=20

At least, that's my thoughts.

--
Brian FG Katz, Ph.D, HDR
Research Director, CNRS
Institut d'Alembert , Sorbonne Universit=E9s, UPMC Univ Paris 06, CNRS =
bureau
510, 5=E8me, all=E9 des tours 55-65 4, Place Jussieu
75252 Paris cedex 05

Tel: (+33) 01 44 27 80 34
web_perso: http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz
web_lab: http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr
web_group: http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/lam =A0=A0=A0=A0=20

-----Original Message-----
From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception
[mailto:AUDITORY@LISTS.MCGILL.CA] On Behalf Of Bob Masta
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 2:26 PM
To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Converting audio file from WAV to MP3 changes =
file
duration. Why?

Don't most browsers allow playing of .WAV files directly?=20

That would solve your immediate problem, and also eliminate a much more
insidious one that could come back to bite you down the road: Namely, =
that
MP3 uses perceptual coding. It's essentially based on "tricking" the
auditory system by omitting things it doesn't think most people will =
miss.
It's a compromise between accuracy and file size. It was intended for
"consumer" applications, not basic research.

MP3 might be good enough for whatever you are doing, but in general it =
seems
risky for auditory experiments that are trying to determine what people =
can
perceive. =20

Best regards,

Bob Masta

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

On 15 Nov 2017 at 22:03, Neeraj Sharma wrote:

>=20
> Members,
>=20
> Thank you for the suggestions and the useful links.=20
> In particular=A0http://lame.sourceforge.net/tech-FAQ.txt=A0 states the =

> reason for increase in duration for WAV to MP3.
> Loosely stating, the increase is due to zero-padding at start and end. =

> The zero-padding in the start seems to be fixed (for the codec used)=20
> but that at end will depend on the input file duration (or number of
samples).
>=20
> Why this is bothering me is:
>=20
> I have a sound stimuli created in WAV. I have created time stamps to=20
> map to certain significant "waveform events" in the signal.
> I will be playing back these stimuli in HTML, and due to certain
requirement I have to use MP3s.=20
> The issue is that:
> 1. I do not have idea about the MP3 decoder used by the browser to=20
> decode the MP3s, and hence the duration of audio file will=20
> potentially,
have some unknown alterations.
> 2. The time-stamps of the same events reported by listening to the=20
> stimuli through browser, will likely always have some (different) =
offset.
> =A0
> Hence, estimating reaction time (as difference in the two timestamps)=20
> will always be overestimated.
> How much noise (in msec) in reaction time measurement for=""> > stimuli is insignificant? Any suggestions on this will help in=20
> deciding
the relevance for correcting the offsets.
>=20
> Best regards,
> Neeks
>=20
> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 5:15 AM, Julien Bloit <julien.bloit@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> Zero-padding is applied for filtering purposes, see a=20
> (rather old) explanation here:=A0
> http://lame.sourceforge.net/tech-FAQ.txt
>=20
> A command line tool like "afinfo" will be able to tell you=20
> how many valid audio frames are in the mp3, and which=20
> are the priming and reamainder frames.
>=20
> Julien
>=20
> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 8:57 AM, Windau, G.R.W.=20
> (G=FCnter) <G.Windau@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Dear Neeks,
>=20
> Your wav audio files can have an arbitrary lenght,=20
> depending on the duration of the audio sample. The=20
> mp3 audio file however, is a sequence of frames with=20
> a certain length in bytes, and thus also in duration.=20
> After going from wav to mp3 and back, you will see=20
> that the the duration of your audio sample has=20
> changed. I guess there will be some zero padding or=20
> small conversion artifacts before and after the 'real'=20
> audio.
>=20
> This may have been designed this way to prevent the=20
> introduction of audible clicks at the beginning and at=20
> the end when playing an mp3 file.
>=20
> If you need the duration of your audio files to be=20
> maintained, mp3 may not be what you want.
>=20
> Best wishes,
> G=FCnter
>=20
>=20
> On 15 Nov 2017, at 08:02, Neeraj Sharma=20
> <neerajww@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>=20
> Dear Members,
> =20
> An audio file in WAV can be converted to MP3=20
> using following two utilities in unix terminal (both=20
> work, and there may be many more also):
> =20
> $ ffmpeg -i <input.wav> -codec:a libmp3lame -b:a=20
> 320k <output.mp3> </dev/null
> $ lame -q0 -b128 <input.wav> <output.wav>
> =20
> But the issue is that the duration of <output.mp3>=20
> is more than duration of <input.wav>. This is true=20
> with other utilities which I have tried, like sox. Can=20
> anyone give insight on:
>=20
> a. why the duration is increasing? In the attached=20
> image below, the duration variation is plotted for=""> > 410 sound files. The increase in duration appears=20
> to be WAV file dependent (although it is within=20
> 140ms in this case)
>=20
> b. is there option in the above utilities which can=20
> reduce this difference in duration?=A0 I haven't been=20
> able to figure this out.
> =20
> Similar issue has been reported by few others=20
> also.
> Example:=20
> https://www.sweetwater.com/forums/showthread.
> php?42631
> =20
> Best regards,
> Neeks
>=20
>=20
> <duration_var_wav_mp3.png>
>=20
> -
> ing. G=FCnter Windau | Technical Support Group=A0| =A0Dept. =
Biophysics=A0|
Donders Institute for Brain, Cognition and=20
> Behaviour=A0|=A0Radboud =A0University Nijmegen=A0 |=A0 =
Heyendaalseweg 135,
NL-6525AJ Nijmegen =A0| =A0room 00.817=A0|=20
> =A0E:=A0G.Windau@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=A0| T: +31 24 3613356=A0|=A0W:=20
> http://www.mbfys.ru.nl/~gunter
>=20
>=20
>=20

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 21:16:59 +0000
From: Benedikt Zoefel <Benedikt.Zoefel@xxxxxxxxxxx.AC.UK>
Subject: workshop on brain stimulation and neural oscillations
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Dear colleagues,

We are pleased to announce the workshop =93Perturbing and Enhancing Percept=
ion and Action using Oscillatory Neural Stimulation=94 (PEPA ON Stimulation=
), scheduled for the 18th/19th January 2018 at the MRC Cognition and Brain =
Sciences Unit (CBU) in Cambridge, UK. This meeting is designed to bring tog=
ether researchers to discuss and improve our knowledge of brain stimulation=
methods, and how they can be used to demonstrate a causal role of neural o=
scillations for perception and action. Please refer to our website for deta=
iled information and registration: http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/pepa/

Best wishes,

The organizers of PEPA ON Stimulation
Benedikt Zoefel and Matt Davis=

-Mark

http://www.VanDamMark.com/