AW: Pitch learning

["Werner A. Deutsch" <Werner.Deutsch@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Dear Pierre,

I agree, gamelan tones being a challenging pitch issue! I remember an
experimetal study Franz Foedermayr and me performed in 1986 (Tonhöhe versus
Frequenz, Musicologica Austriaca, 6 -1986) on pengisep and pengumbang
Balineese gamelan instruments and perceived pitch. Analysing separated tones
of both instruments tuned to 1220 cents and/or 1196 cents and the "slendro
tuning" close to 70 cents have been considered. Moreover it had to be put
into consideration the play of fast high pitched figuration and long lasting
(drone like) beats of low pitch tones produces separated streams. Out of
several tested pitch perception models Terhadt's approach performed best,
because it predicts probabilities of pitches for the composition of
arbitrary spectral components. Nevertheless his model was not intended to
predict the pitches perceived over the duration of separated sounds or in
dependence of the context of adjacent tones.

Best, Werner
------------------------------------------------------------
Acoustics Research Institute
Austrian Academy of Sciences
Reichsratsstrasse 17
A-1010 Wien
Tel. 43(1) 4277 29500
Fax: 43(1) 4277 9295
Email: Werner.Deutsch@xxxxxxxxxx
http://www.kfs.oeaw.ac.at




-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception
[mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Pierre Divenyi
Gesendet: Freitag, 2. März 2007 20:34
An: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: Re: Pitch learning

Martin, 

I defer to you, the expert. You should have pointed to your web page http://
<http://web.telia.com/~u57011259/pelog_main.htm>
web.telia.com/~u57011259/pelog _main.htm
<http://web.telia.com/~u57011259/pelog_main.htm>  

Pierre

At 10:23 AM 3/2/2007, Martin Braun wrote:


	Dear Pierre and others,
	
	

		During my studies some time ago I read in a respected source
that there are gamelans in which even the octave is missing.


	There must have been a misunderstanding in this. A gamelan ensemble
without the octave as the backbone of all tuning is a red herring. What
occurs are deviations from the mathematically exact octave, up to about +/-
30 Cent. In some gamelan cultures, such as in Bali, octave deviations are
tuned on purpose to reach a shimmering sound caused by the "beats" resulting
from this tuning practice.
	
	We should also note that all gamelan scales that have ever been
found are fairly well understood in terms of physics and hearing physiology.
Not much mystery here.
	
	Martin
	
	
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Martin Braun
	Neuroscience of Music
	S-671 95 Klässbol
	Sweden
	web site: http://w1.570.telia.com/~u57011259/index.htm
<http://w1.570.telia.com/~u57011259/index.htm> 
	
	
	
	----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre Divenyi"
<pdivenyi@xxxxxxxxx>
	To: <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
	Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:49 AM
	Subject: Re: Pitch learning
	
	
	

		I think that the most challenging instrument to any pitch
theories is the gamelan ensemble: partials produced by each metal bloc are
inharmonic and the (supposed) fundamental frequencies of the bloc series
define an inharmonic scale that varies from gamelan to gamelan, except that
they never include simple harmonic ratios. During my studies some time ago I
read in a respected source that there are gamelans in which even the octave
is missing.
		
		Pierre