Re: Musical Semant[r]ic[k]s

[Martin Braun <nombraun@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Thanks, Kevin !

It's good you have got into this list.

Martin


----- Original Message -----
From: KEVIN AUSTIN <KAUSTIN@VAX2.CONCORDIA.CA>
To: <AUDITORY@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 1:31 PM
Subject: Musical Semant[r]ic[k]s


> >From:    Alexandra Hettergott <a.hettergott@WANADOO.FR>
> >Subject: Re: Let's have a test on chord grammar
>
> Yo! Alexandra!!
>
>
> >>There are just no clear semantic signals in music, and
> >>syntactic signals are missing altogether.
>
> >'Syntactic signals' in speech exist (only) in relation to an external
> >(structural) reference system --
>
> Mmmm ... possibly, but maybe the 'syntactic signals' don't exist in
> speech, but rather, it might be that the perceptual and interpretive
> systems of individuals extracts (what one considers to be) the
> 'important' aspects of the signal. Which, IMV, is learned, and is
> therefore cultural. It would therefore (from this line of thought) be
> that the syntactic signal exosts in relation to an _internal_
> (structural) reference system.  <<<8-()>>>>>>  !!
>
>
> > you might easily have such thing also in music ...
>
> IME & IMV, definitely! However, this 'common' language (response) is
> unique to every individual. [A new operational definition of 'common'!]
>
>
>
> > So the 'inversions' as for a triad, i.e., sixth chord (1st)
> >and six-four chord (2nd), might be sort of corresponding to the
> >'inflections' of (flexible) words
>
> This might be so (for many people), however in my (teaching experience),
> I continue to note that _many_ people do not hear the first inversion
> triad as being 'an inflection' of the root position chord. For those who
> don't hear this, the learning curve is _steep_.
>
> For those not (overly) familiar with 'harmony', a numerical example.
>
> Which of these two patterns is 'more similar'?
>     4   3
>     3   4
>     3   5
>
> Hmmmmm ...  the first is a major triad in semitones; the second is a
> minor triad in semitones; the third is a 'first inversion' major triad in
> semitones. Students have to 'learn' that the first and third patterns are
> 'more similar' ... no, not the first and second, or the second and third!
>
>
> > likewise as you have 'inversions' and 'retrogrades'
> >in dodecaphonic music, plus their 'mirroring', (analogously)
> >corresponding to (inflected) word form and / or order in speech
> >sentences ;
>
> .redor emit fo lasrever a si ereht ecnis ,deviecrep eb ylisae nac
> edargorter a taht erus ton ma I
>
> [Retrograde]
>
> Hrnroziob' R,n mlg xlmermxvw zylfg rmevihrlm.
> Similarly, I'm not convinced about inversion.
>
> [Inversion]
>
> ??mlrhivemr-vwzitligvi big lg gmzD
> Want to try retrograde-inversion??
>
> [RI]
>
>
> > or one might also think of the conclusive (terminative)
> >character of different (final) cadences in traditional music in this
> >context.
>
> And the 'unstable' tritone of tonal music is a preferred (and understood)
> cadential feature in Messiaen.
>
>
> >'Semantics' is due to the reference to some (external) meaning,
>
> As I wrote .. I think the meaning is 'internal' ... which could be why
> some things mean some thing to some people, and not to others.
>
> And there may be primitives ... and (self-)learned schema ... [Bregman
> ASA p 642 ... ASA = Auditory Scene Analysis.]
>
>
>
> Best
>
> Kevin
> kaustin@vax2.concordia.ca
>
>
>
> The tulips are thinking about budding ... and the squirrels are thinking
> about the budding tulips. Chili pepper time!
>
>