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Re: AUDITORY Digest - 2 Mar 2005 (#2005-39)
2 issues concerning music perecption:
1)Just so we give cold-blooded animals their fair shake...
Most fish wouldprobably miss out on the high frequency content. Of the species tested, most don't hear very well above 1000 Hz or so, with the exception of goldfish & catfish. It all depends on the configuration of the ear...not to mention the fact that they are under water! Is anyone aware of how humans perceive music under water?
2)Humans with cochlear damage (no CIs) often report that music sounds "rough," and they don't enjoy listening to it anymore.
Now, the fact that I can go from fish to hearing-impaired humans in several sentences tells me I need to graduate soon!
At 11:06 02/03/05 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm sorry to interrupt the current frenzy of pet anecdotes (in which no one
>has yet mentioned fish)...
>
>I'm looking for a reference that reports whether or not humans can identify
>stop consonants based on their initial spectra--before the formant
>transitions to the following vowel. Secondarily (though I suppose more
>fundamentally), are the initial spectra (first 10 msec or however long
>*before* formant transitions) invariant with respect to following vowels?
>Differences between voiced and unvoiced?
>
>Background: I had been well indoctrinated in the motor theory of speech
>perception, teaching my students the wonders of categorical perception of
>stop consonants despite widely varying formant transition profiles across
>different vowels (i.e., /di/ looks rather different than /du/ but we
>identify /d/ in both). A recent conference poster looking at
>neurophysiological spectral representation in non-human primate suggested
>that response to spectra of stop consonants (without the following formant
>transitions) was sufficient to distinguish and identify them. Alas, I did
>not get the relevant human reference and have been unable to find one in an
>informal search of my reference books and MEDLINE.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Peter
>
>: Peter Marvit, PhD <pmarvit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> :
>: Dept. Anatomy and Neurobiology University of Maryland Medical School:
>: 20 Penn Street, HSF II, Room S251 Baltimore, MD 21201 :
>: phone 410-706-1272 http://www.theearlab.org fax 410-706-2512 :
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Robert J. Zatorre, Ph.D.
Montreal Neurological Institute
3801 University St.
Montreal, QC Canada H3A 2B4
phone: 1-514-398-8903
fax: 1-514-398-1338
web site: www.zlab.mcgill.ca
--=====================_6435490==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html>
<font size=3D3><br>
You are looking for the classic papers of my former teacher, Sheila
Blumstein:<br>
<br>
Blumstein SE. Stevens KN. Acoustic invariance in speech production:
evidence from measurements of the spectral characteristics of stop
consonants. [Journal Article] Journal of the Acoustical Society of
America. 66(4):1001-17, 1979 Oct. <br>
<br>
and<br>
<br>
Blumstein SE. Stevens KN. Perceptual invariance and onset spectra for
stop consonants in different vowel environments. [Journal Article]
Journal of the Acoustical Society of America. 67(2):648-62, 1980 Feb.
<br>
<br>
<br>
--Robert<br>
<br>
PS: I too vote we stop with the pet anecdotes and get onto the much more
interesting questions just raised by other people!<br>
<br>
At 11:06 02/03/05 -0500, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite cite>I'm sorry to interrupt the current frenzy of
pet anecdotes (in which no one<br>
has yet mentioned fish)...<br>
<br>
I'm looking for a reference that reports whether or not humans can
identify<br>
stop consonants based on their initial spectra--before the formant<br>
transitions to the following vowel. Secondarily (though I suppose
more<br>
fundamentally), are the initial spectra (first 10 msec or however
long<br>
*before* formant transitions) invariant with respect to following
vowels?<br>
Differences between voiced and unvoiced?<br>
<br>
Background: I had been well indoctrinated in the motor theory of
speech<br>
perception, teaching my students the wonders of categorical perception
of<br>
stop consonants despite widely varying formant transition profiles
across<br>
different vowels (i.e., /di/ looks rather different than /du/ but=20
we<br>
identify /d/ in both). A recent conference poster looking at<br>
neurophysiological spectral representation in non-human primate
suggested<br>
that response to spectra of stop consonants (without the following
formant<br>
transitions) was sufficient to distinguish and identify them. Alas, I
did<br>
not get the relevant human reference and have been unable to find one in
an<br>
informal search of my reference books and MEDLINE.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
: Peter Marvit,
PhD &=
nbsp;  =
;
<pmarvit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> :<br>
: Dept. Anatomy and Neurobiology University of Maryland
Medical School:<br>
: 20 Penn Street, HSF II, Room
S251 =
Baltimore, MD 21201 :<br>
: phone 410-706-1272
<a href=3D"http://www.theearlab.org=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0/"; eudora=3D"autourl">http=
://www.theearlab.org
</a> fax 410-706-2512 :<br>
</font></blockquote><br>
<div>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</div>
<br>
<div>Robert J. Zatorre, Ph.D.</div>
<div>Montreal Neurological Institute</div>
<div>3801 University St.</div>
<div>Montreal, QC Canada H3A 2B4</div>
<div>phone: 1-514-398-8903</div>
<div>fax: 1-514-398-1338</div>
<div>web site:
<a href=3D"http://www.zlab.mcgill.ca/"=
EUDORA=3DAUTOURL>www.zlab.mcgill.ca</a></div>
</html>
--=====================_6435490==_.ALT--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 17:22:37 +0000
From: Stuart Rosen <stuart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Stop consonant identification based on initial spectra?
There are also individual differences in the reliance on different cues:
Hazan, V. & Rosen, S. (1991) Individual variability in the perception of
cues to place contrasts in initial stops. Perception & Psychophysics,
49:187-200.
/*------------------------------------------------------*/
Stuart Rosen, PhD
Professor of Speech and Hearing Science
Dept of Phonetics & Linguistics
University College London
4 Stephenson Way
London NW1 2HE
England
Tel: (+ 44 [0]20) 7679 7404
Admin: (+ 44 [0]20) 7679 7401
Fax: (+ 44 [0]20) 7383 0752
Email: stuart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Home page: http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/stuart/home.htm
/*------------------------------------------------------*/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 12:24:05 -0500
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Claire_Pich=E9?= <clairepiche@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Underwater Soundscapes
about fish...
i remember once i was siting by the Ontario lake in a quiet environment
when suddenly a bunch of motor-marine fans got creasy on the lake.
And then i had a thought for the fishes. they must start having problems
to communicate between them... may be some are already deaf.
Here's some opportunities to listen to underwater soundscapes
compiled and reported by :
Gary Ferrington. 2003. "Soundwalking the Internet: Ocean Acoustics -
Opportunities
to Listen to Underwater Soundscapes". /The Journal of Acoustic Ecology,
/vol. 4, n°1 p.41-42.
1- Voyage of the Odyssey: Voicies from the Sea
http:/www.pbs.org/odyssey/voice/index.html
2- Sounds of the Humming
http:/www.news.cornell.edu/releases/June98/fish/sounds.html
3- Fish Acoustics
http:/www.personal.ecu.edu/spraguem/drumming.html
Claire Piché
member of CASE
Canadian Association for Sound Ecology
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 12:25:50 -0500
From: Robbin Wood <raw25@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Do deaf humans (CI users) like music?
I find the study of music (and speech) perception in congenitally deaf =
CI
users quite fascinating. Studying these patients could provide a unique
perspective on the development of music and language perception. While =
the
Nakata et al. (2005) study examines children ages 4-9, I am very curious
about differences in music and speech perception in congenitally deaf
patients who acquired their cochlear implants at different stages in =
life.
For instance, if a CI were implanted in a congenitally deaf 30-year-old,
would this patient be able to perceive, enjoy, etc. music and speech, or
would this be so far past the "critical period" that the brain's =
plasticity
would not be great enough to accommodate these new perceptual =
experiences?
~Robbin=20
Robbin A. Wood
Interdisciplinary Program in Neuroscience
Georgetown University
3900 Reservoir Rd., NW
Washington DC 20007
(202) 687-8449
-----Original Message-----
From: AUDITORY Research in Auditory Perception
[mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of William Cooper
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 11:28 AM
To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Do deaf humans (CI users) like music?
Dear List,
The topics of the recent threads have circled around the theme of =
primitive
innate ability for music and its appreciation. We have discussed whether
music may or may not be preserved under different kinds of brain insults =
and
we have discussed whether animals are capable of hearing and =
appreciating
music.
I wish to broaden this topic of discussion to a special population of
humans, deaf individuals who have been implanted with a cochlear implant
(CI) device. I think including a discussion of how this population =
perceives
and appreciates music would be interesting under a topic of innate =
musical
appreciation.
Briefly, a cochlear implant is an electronic device that is implanted
directly into the cochlea. It electrically stimulates the auditory nerve
giving rise the perception of sound in deaf individuals. CIs are =
effective
in assisting deaf individuals to hear again or in many cases for the =
first
time.
CI users are either congenitally deaf or acquired deafness later in =
life.
The latter group acquired deafness either before learning to speak
(prelingually deaf) or after learning to speak (postlingually deaf). I =
want
to share some reported findings and some personal observations regarding =
how
these individuals perceive music.
CI users who acquired deafness postlingually tend to appreciate music =
less
postimplantation than before losing their hearing (Gfeller et al., =
2000).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=3DRetrieve&db=3Dpubmed&=
dopt=3DAb
stract&list_uids=3D10976500
I find this to be generally true, though I have witnessed postlingually =
deaf
CI users who still appreciate music. An apparent commonality among these
individuals is that their level of appreciation seems to correspond with
their listening habits and success with their device.
I have also observed that CI users with congenital deafness tend to
appreciate music more than CI users who possessed hearing =
preimplantation
(such a comparison is yet to be substantiated). The congenitally deaf CI
users tend to be less frustrated with how the CI portrays music to them.
This, it would seem, is very likely due to the fact that, prior to
implantation, they had not heard music and therefore posses no means of
comparison.
My observations seem to be consistent with findings from a recent study
investigating music perception in congenitally deaf children with CIs
(Nakata et al, 2005).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=3DRetrieve&db=3Dpubmed&=
dopt=3DAb
stract&list_uids=3D15684539
I'm wondering if subscribers to this list might comment on:
a) CI users' perception of music
b) the ability (of humans) to appreciate music having not had previous
exposure to it (truly, primitive innate ability for music and its
appreciation)
c) functions of brain plasticity that would enable postlingually deaf CI
users to appreciate music again, or congenitally deaf CI users to =
appreciate
music for the first time.
William Cooper
----------------------------------------------------------------
William B. Cooper, M.Sc., M.S.
School of Behavioral and Brain Sciences
The University of Texas at Dallas
wcooper@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.utdallas.edu/~wcooper
----------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 19:04:10 +0100
From: Christian Kaernbach <auditory@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Teacher check
Dear Martin,
I would have guessed the control groups Robert would have liked to see
would not be other composers but, for instance, white noise of same
average rms power, then maybr AM noise modulated along the short-term
rms power of Mozart, and other stimuli that could physically cause the
observed effects whithout being musical.
Best,
Christian Kaernbach
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 19:08:02 +0100
From: Christian Kaernbach <auditory@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Pitch in a non-animate world
Dear List,
It recently came to my mind that nearly all experiences of pitch are
related to animal communication soounds. Sure, there is something like
edge pitch of broadband stimuli, maybe even echo pitch under specific
conditions, but clearly periodic sounds stemming from a periodically
moving source would nearly always come from an animal (and most often be
communication sounds... exception: humming of bees etc.). Is this a
complete nonsense? Or could it be that pitch processing evolved in
parallel to communication capabilities?
Best,
Christian Kaernbach
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 12:50:04 -0600
From: Mark Hasegawa-Johnson <jhasegaw@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Stop consonant identification based on initial spectra?
In a cappella music, rounded /p/ bursts are used to simulate bass drum,
/k/ for snare, and /t/ for high-hat; see e.g. "Miseducation of Lauryn
Hill."
---
Mark Hasegawa-Johnson
University of Illinois
Marvit, Peter wrote:
> I'm sorry to interrupt the current frenzy of pet anecdotes (in which no one
> has yet mentioned fish)...
>
> I'm looking for a reference that reports whether or not humans can identify
> stop consonants based on their initial spectra--before the formant
> transitions to the following vowel. Secondarily (though I suppose more
> fundamentally), are the initial spectra (first 10 msec or however long
> *before* formant transitions) invariant with respect to following vowels?
> Differences between voiced and unvoiced?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:03:54 -0600
From: Thomas G Brennan <g_brennantg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Do deaf humans (CI users) like music?
Robbin, that partly obviously has to do with your definition of "deaf".
Deafness is much like blindness in that very few people are either totally deaf
or totally blind. By deaf do you mean congenitally totally deaf persons? If
not, the question is very much confounded by the auditory variable. If you do
indeed mean totally deaf there is a fairly small population to work with.
Clinically speaking, I have found anyone congenitally totally deaf regardless of
when implanted to gain far less benefit from implants although the younger seems
to be the better. However, I have seen only a few of such people and have only
communicated with a few more beyond that.
Tom
Tom Brennan KD5VIJ, CCC-A/SLP
web page http://titan.sfasu.edu/~g_brennantg/sonicpage.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 14:05:35 -0500
From: Bob Masta <audio@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Do deaf humans (CI users) like music?
On 2 Mar 2005 at 10:27, William Cooper wrote:
<snip>
> CI users who acquired deafness postlingually tend to appreciate music less
> postimplantation than before losing their hearing (Gfeller et al., 2000).
Having heard simulations of what a CI user experiences, this is no great
mystery: The CI is only exciting maybe a dozen distinct frequency channels
at best (depending on the depth of implant insertion, remaining nerve function,
etc.). Speech is clear enough, but music is pretty much a total loss except
for timing and general pitch regions... no resolution to the semitone level,
for example. As you suggest, it might be wonderful if you've never heard
anything before, but it's not remotely like what a postlingually-deaf
person might rememeber.
Best regards,
Bob Masta
audioATdaqartaDOTcom
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 11:21:58 -0800
From: Brian Gygi <bgygi@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Animals and music
At 12:19 PM 3/1/2005, Philip Dorrell wrote:
>Even if there is some set of sounds which some species of animal is
>capable of responding to in the same way that we humans respond to the
>set of sounds that we call music, it may not be the same set of sounds.
>In other words, "animal music" may be different from human music, and if
>so, it will be different for each species of animal. Furthermore, human
>music is distinct from normal human communication sounds (i.e. speech
>and a few other things), so animal music is also likely to be distinct
>from normal animal communication sounds. Finally, human music is very
>difficult even for humans to compose, so we might suppose that animal
>music is difficult to compose, and, non-human animals being generally
>less talented in intellectual fields than humans, it is entirely
>possible that no animal has ever composed a single item of animal music.
One of the best definitions of music I heard was from the guitarist Robert
Fripp, who said "Music is quality organized in sound." By that he meant
that music is sound manipulated to have an aesthetic effect. So, it is not
"difficult to compose" music, it is just difficult to compose music that
hasn't been done before and better. As for animal music, if we believe
Kierkegaard that we couldn't understand a lion even if he was talking,
since we have no idea what they would consider aesthetic, why would we be
able to recognize animal music even if we heard it? And where could we buy
their CDs?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:54:21 +0100
From: Leon van Noorden <leonvannoorden@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Do deaf humans (CI users) like music?
Dear list,
Living together with a congenitally profoundly deaf person has made me
aware, how much we, as well hearing people, think that music comes only
through the ears. My wife has had the advantage to be born in a hearing
family and she did therefore everything that was normal in that family, =
like
following piano lessons for many years. Rhythmic aspects of music come
through to her via all kinds of vibrating contact media such as the =
floor
and a hand bag. Of course she can enjoy the words of a song by reading =
or
lipreading. On top of that she has a keen feeling for how people react =
to
music and she appreciates very much to dance (with a preference for a =
wooden
floor). So I can state from close observation that a congenitally deaf
person can certainly enjoy music, even if she is not able to hear =
certain
essential elements such as pitch. On the other hand I can imagine that =
if
she would get an implant at her age the unidentifiable noises coming =
from
such an implant would interfere with her way of appreciating music. This =
is
certainly the experience of one of her sisters. I have some hesitation =
to
believe that following some deaf people who get an CI on early age can =
shed
much light on the development of music perception as we also know many
people who, while having good hearing do not have interest in and
appreciation of music.
Leon van Noorden,
Brussels, Belgium
-----Message d'origine-----
De=A0: AUDITORY Research in Auditory Perception
[mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] De la part de Robbin Wood
Envoy=E9=A0: woensdag 2 maart 2005 18:26
=C0=A0: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Objet=A0: Re: Do deaf humans (CI users) like music?
I find the study of music (and speech) perception in congenitally deaf =
CI
users quite fascinating. Studying these patients could provide a unique
perspective on the development of music and language perception. While =
the
Nakata et al. (2005) study examines children ages 4-9, I am very curious
about differences in music and speech perception in congenitally deaf
patients who acquired their cochlear implants at different stages in =
life.
For instance, if a CI were implanted in a congenitally deaf 30-year-old,
would this patient be able to perceive, enjoy, etc. music and speech, or
would this be so far past the "critical period" that the brain's =
plasticity
would not be great enough to accommodate these new perceptual =
experiences?
~Robbin=20
Robbin A. Wood
Interdisciplinary Program in Neuroscience
Georgetown University
3900 Reservoir Rd., NW
Washington DC 20007
(202) 687-8449
-----Original Message-----
From: AUDITORY Research in Auditory Perception
[mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of William Cooper
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 11:28 AM
To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Do deaf humans (CI users) like music?
Dear List,
The topics of the recent threads have circled around the theme of =
primitive
innate ability for music and its appreciation. We have discussed whether
music may or may not be preserved under different kinds of brain insults =
and
we have discussed whether animals are capable of hearing and =
appreciating
music.
I wish to broaden this topic of discussion to a special population of
humans, deaf individuals who have been implanted with a cochlear implant
(CI) device. I think including a discussion of how this population =
perceives
and appreciates music would be interesting under a topic of innate =
musical
appreciation.
Briefly, a cochlear implant is an electronic device that is implanted
directly into the cochlea. It electrically stimulates the auditory nerve
giving rise the perception of sound in deaf individuals. CIs are =
effective
in assisting deaf individuals to hear again or in many cases for the =
first
time.
CI users are either congenitally deaf or acquired deafness later in =
life.
The latter group acquired deafness either before learning to speak
(prelingually deaf) or after learning to speak (postlingually deaf). I =
want
to share some reported findings and some personal observations regarding =
how
these individuals perceive music.
CI users who acquired deafness postlingually tend to appreciate music =
less
postimplantation than before losing their hearing (Gfeller et al., =
2000).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=3DRetrieve&db=3Dpubmed&=
dopt=3DAb
stract&list_uids=3D10976500
I find this to be generally true, though I have witnessed postlingually =
deaf
CI users who still appreciate music. An apparent commonality among these
individuals is that their level of appreciation seems to correspond with
their listening habits and success with their device.
I have also observed that CI users with congenital deafness tend to
appreciate music more than CI users who possessed hearing =
preimplantation
(such a comparison is yet to be substantiated). The congenitally deaf CI
users tend to be less frustrated with how the CI portrays music to them.
This, it would seem, is very likely due to the fact that, prior to
implantation, they had not heard music and therefore posses no means of
comparison.
My observations seem to be consistent with findings from a recent study
investigating music perception in congenitally deaf children with CIs
(Nakata et al, 2005).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=3DRetrieve&db=3Dpubmed&=
dopt=3DAb
stract&list_uids=3D15684539
I'm wondering if subscribers to this list might comment on:
a) CI users' perception of music
b) the ability (of humans) to appreciate music having not had previous
exposure to it (truly, primitive innate ability for music and its
appreciation)
c) functions of brain plasticity that would enable postlingually deaf CI
users to appreciate music again, or congenitally deaf CI users to =
appreciate
music for the first time.
William Cooper
----------------------------------------------------------------
William B. Cooper, M.Sc., M.S.
School of Behavioral and Brain Sciences
The University of Texas at Dallas
wcooper@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.utdallas.edu/~wcooper
----------------------------------------------------------------
--=20
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/2005
=20
--=20
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 2/22/2005
=20
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 21:11:26 +0100
From: Leon van Noorden <leonvannoorden@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Animals and music
Brian,
If you want a CD of how animals make music together with humans:
"Life with the Birds" of the Maciunas Ensemble and Kanary Grand Band,
1997 Maciunas Ensemble and Het Appolohuis, Eindhoven
-----Message d'origine-----
De=A0: AUDITORY Research in Auditory Perception
[mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] De la part de Brian Gygi
Envoy=E9=A0: woensdag 2 maart 2005 20:22
=C0=A0: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Objet=A0: Animals and music
At 12:19 PM 3/1/2005, Philip Dorrell wrote:
>Even if there is some set of sounds which some species of animal is
>capable of responding to in the same way that we humans respond to the
>set of sounds that we call music, it may not be the same set of sounds.
>In other words, "animal music" may be different from human music, and =
if
>so, it will be different for each species of animal. Furthermore, =
human
>music is distinct from normal human communication sounds (i.e. speech
>and a few other things), so animal music is also likely to be distinct
>from normal animal communication sounds. Finally, human music is very
>difficult even for humans to compose, so we might suppose that animal
>music is difficult to compose, and, non-human animals being generally
>less talented in intellectual fields than humans, it is entirely
>possible that no animal has ever composed a single item of animal =
music.
One of the best definitions of music I heard was from the guitarist =
Robert
Fripp, who said "Music is quality organized in sound." By that he meant
that music is sound manipulated to have an aesthetic effect. So, it is =
not
"difficult to compose" music, it is just difficult to compose music that
hasn't been done before and better. As for animal music, if we believe
Kierkegaard that we couldn't understand a lion even if he was talking,
since we have no idea what they would consider aesthetic, why would we =
be
able to recognize animal music even if we heard it? And where could we =
buy
their CDs?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:07:13 -0800
From: Pierre Divenyi <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Do deaf humans (CI users) like music?
Bingo, Leon, on (at least) two counts!
First, that music enjoyment comes from other modalities as well (just ask
anybody of Generation X whether the 160 dBA rocking of the whole auditorium
space during a hard rock concert was not part of the musical experience,
regardless of how few remaining hair cells they have now).
But second, first if you are primarily interested in music, the first and
foremost attribute of music is not melody or harmony but rhythm and meter.
You can have music on a single note (think of the dijeridoo) but you can't
have music without a rhythmic fluctuation that creates time-bound
expectations in the listener. Which is why I have lots of questions
concerning animal music.
Pierre
****************************************************************************
Pierre Divenyi, Ph.D. Chief, Speech and Hearing Research (151)
VA Medical Center and East Bay Institute
for Research and Education
Martinez, CA 94553, USA
Phone: +1 (925) 370-6745
Fax: +1 (925) 372-2561
E-mail : pdivenyi@xxxxxxxxx
****************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 17:19:40 -0500
From: Robbin Wood <raw25@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Do deaf humans (CI users) like music?
>"I have some hesitation to believe that following some deaf people who =
get
an CI on early age can shed much light on the development of music
perception as we also know many people who, while having good hearing do =
not
have interest in and appreciation of music."
****************************
Leon, I agree that enjoyment/appreciation of music would be somewhat
difficult to study. However, many aspects of music are perceived by
non-musicians as well as for musicians. For instance, most people can =
tell
if they hear a "sour" note in a melody, whether or not they have had =
formal
training in music. In several event-related potential studies by =
Koelsch et
al., incongruent chords elicited similar ERP components (i.e. ERANs and =
N5s)
in both musicians and non-musicians. And in several ERP studies by =
Mireille
Besson and her colleagues, deviant notes and chords elicited late =
positive
components (or P600s) in musicians and non-musicians (although these
components are larger in musicians). In addition, studies by Bharucha &
Stoeckig show priming effects for chords that are related with respect =
to
Western Tonal rules (for instance, in-tune target chords were more =
quickly
and more likely to be judged in tune when following a related chord). =
These
priming effects did not correlate with the subject's amount of musical
training.
What would be interesting (and informative about the development of =
music
perception) would be if congenitally deaf CI users exhibit these =
behavioral
and/or ERP effects ONLY if the CI were implanted before a "critical" age =
(or
if these effects vary gradually with respect to age at CI implantation).
These results could provide information about how the brain's ability to
learn musical rules (and rules in other auditory domains such as speech) =
and
how this ability changes with age and decline in neural plasticity.
****************************
>"On the other hand I can imagine that if she would get an implant at =
her
age the unidentifiable noises coming from such an implant would =
interfere
with her way of appreciating music. This is certainly the experience of =
one
of her sisters."
****************************
This is interesting. Did her sister perceive music as a bunch of =
random,
distracting noises? Do you know how old she was when she received her =
CI?
~Robbin
Robbin A. Wood
Interdisciplinary Program in Neuroscience
Georgetown University
3900 Reservoir Rd., NW
Washington DC 20007
(202) 687-8449
--=20
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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=20
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 17:00:04 -0500
From: Al Bregman <bregman@xxxxxxxxx
Amanda Lauer
Dept. of Psychology
Center for the Comparative &
Evolutionary Biology of Hearing
University of Maryland
College Park, MD 20783
301-405-5940