Re: AUDITORY Digest - 14 Apr 2004 (#2004-80)

["Watson, Charles S" <watson@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Charles S. Watson
Professor Emeritus
Department of Speech and Hearing Sciences
Indiana University
Bloomington, Indiana 47405
 
-----Original Message-----
From: AUDITORY Research in Auditory Perception
[mailto:AUDITORY@LISTS.MCGILL.CA] On Behalf Of Automatic digest
processor
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 11:00 PM
To: Recipients of AUDITORY digests
Subject: AUDITORY Digest - 14 Apr 2004 (#2004-80)

There are 5 messages totalling 254 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. AUDITORY Digest - 11 Apr 2004 to 13 Apr 2004 (#2004-78)
  2. Difference between cognition and perception? (4)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:52:30 -0700
From:    Pierre Divenyi <pdivenyi@EBIRE.ORG>
Subject: Re: AUDITORY Digest - 11 Apr 2004 to 13 Apr 2004 (#2004-78)

Chuck Watson's note came into this discussion like a whiff of fresh
breeze.
To me, the distinction between perception and cognition is quantitative
rather than dichotomous. Can we set a criterion, something like "if it
takes longer than five seconds to make a response, then the task is
cognitive?" Otherwise we will be forced to continue to characterize both
concepts with lists of what they are not, not what they are or might be.
I
remember way-back in the early 70's when suddenly psychology departments
decided to focus on cognition and perception teachers had to re-tool to
teach cognitive psych 101. At a meeting in 72 or 73, our colleague Barry
Leshowitz announced to us, with some hilarity, that he devoted an entire
lecture to 2AFC because that task was cognitive. It sure beat courses
such
as animal cognition, etc...

Pierre Divenyi

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:59:05 -0400
From:    "John K. Bates" <jkbates@COMPUTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Difference between cognition and perception?

Dear List,
    How about considering the following generalized definitions of
perception and cognition? I think that they could apply to all systems,
biological or manufactured, that use sensors for the purpose of
optimizing
performance and/or preventing failure.

Perception: The process of receiving, separating, and presenting for
interpretation the information contained in an incoming stream of data.

Cognition: The process of interpreting the meanings of situations as
represented by the displayed information. Comprehending these meanings
enables an optimum response.

These definitions were derived from my operational analysis of auditory
perception available at:
     <http://home.computer.net/~jkbates>

       Best regards,
             John Bates

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:47:29 -0500
From:    Dan Tollin <tollin@PHYSIOLOGY.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Difference between cognition and perception?

List,

  Some might argue that reflexes are an optimal respose to a given
situation since they are rapid and have obvious benefit.  Reflexes would
seem to fit your description of cognition.  For example, touching a hot
stove results in a quick movement of the hand away from the stove.
Following your definition, one could interpret this sequence of events
as a simple 'perception' of heat by the thermoreceptors of the skin
which is then followed by a simple 'cognition' of this input which is
comprehended as 'bad' resulting ultimately in the 'decision' to move the
hand away from the stove in an optimal fashion.  =20

However, I'd wager that most people would not classify reflexes as
something that requires 'cognition.'  Additionally, once you define
'cognition' using terms like 'meaning' and 'comprehending' and
'displayed information' then you've got to define what those terms mean.


Daniel J Tollin, PhD




> -----Original Message-----
> From: John K. Bates [mailto:jkbates@COMPUTER.NET]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:59 PM
> To: AUDITORY@LISTS.MCGILL.CA
> Subject: Re: Difference between cognition and perception?
>=20
>=20
> Dear List,
>     How about considering the following generalized=20
> definitions of perception and cognition? I think that they=20
> could apply to all systems, biological or manufactured, that=20
> use sensors for the purpose of optimizing performance and/or=20
> preventing failure.
>=20
> Perception: The process of receiving, separating, and=20
> presenting for interpretation the information contained in an=20
> incoming stream of data.
>=20
> Cognition: The process of interpreting the meanings of=20
> situations as represented by the displayed information.=20
> Comprehending these meanings enables an optimum response.
>=20
> These definitions were derived from my operational analysis=20
> of auditory perception available at:
>      <http://home.computer.net/~jkbates>
>=20
>        Best regards,
>              John Bates
>=20

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:24:11 +0200
From:    Leon van Noorden <leonvannoorden@CHELLO.BE>
Subject: Re: Difference between cognition and perception?

to all involved in this discussion:

I recently listened to a presentation of Pentti O. Haikonen, Principal
Scientist, Cognitive Technology, Nokia Research and the author of the
book:
The Cognitive Approach to Conscious Machines.

I was struck by the clarity of the concepts such as cognition and
perception
that he gave on the basis of his approach. I certainly want to read that
book.

See:
http://www.imprint.co.uk/books/haikonen.html

Leon van Noorden

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:04:01 -0600
From:    Karen Banai <k-banai@NORTHWESTERN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Difference between cognition and perception?

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C4225B.A16FBF00
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="ks_c_5601-1987"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear list,

Peter Lennox wrote:
> So it has sometimes been
> possible to talk about 'direct perception' (sometimes, but not always,
=
in
> the same context as 'sense-perceptions'), but I don't remember coming
=
across
> 'direct cognition'.
> I'd rather like a clearer idea of the distinction, too.

I think most cognitive psychologists would use the term automaticity to
=
describe what he referred to by 'direct cognition'. For example, reading
=
is a most complex 'cognitive' activity and children learning to read are
=
engaged in a lot of 'thinking about', activity. However, when they =
become proficient readers (as the majority do) the process of reading =
becomes more transparent or direct and not so much thinking about is =
required anymore. In a way, I think this is similar to the perception of
=
familiar stimuli: When listeners have to discriminate between novel =
stimuli (even is a 'simple' perceptual task) they probably have to =
engage in a comparison process which becomes 'automatic' for well =
trained ones. In this sense I feel a sharp distinction between =
perception and cognition is not useful.

Sincerely
Karen

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-=
-----------------
Karen Banai
Department of Communication Sciences and Disorders
Northwestern University
Searle Bldg. 2240 N. Campus Drive
Evanston, IL 60208
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-=
-----------------

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C4225B.A16FBF00
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="ks_c_5601-1987"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dks_c_5601-1987">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear list,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Peter Lennox wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;&nbsp;So it has sometimes =
been<BR>&gt; possible=20
to talk about 'direct perception' (sometimes, but not always, in<BR>&gt;
=
the=20
same context as 'sense-perceptions'), but I don't remember coming =
across<BR>&gt;=20
'direct cognition'.<BR>&gt; I'd rather like a clearer idea of the =
distinction,=20
too.<BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think most cognitive psychologists =
would use the=20
term automaticity to describe what he referred to by 'direct cognition'.
=
For=20
example, reading is a most complex 'cognitive' activity and children =
learning to=20
read are engaged in a lot of 'thinking about', activity. However, when =
they=20
become proficient readers (as the majority do) the process of reading =
becomes=20
more transparent or direct and not so much thinking about is required =
anymore.=20
In a way, I think this is similar to the perception of familiar stimuli:
=
When=20
listeners have to discriminate between novel stimuli (even is a 'simple'
=

perceptual task) they probably have to engage in a comparison process =
which=20
becomes 'automatic' for well trained ones. In this sense I feel a
sharp=20
distinction between perception and cognition is not useful.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sincerely</FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Karen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------
-=
--------------------------<BR>Karen=20
Banai<BR>Department of Communication Sciences and =
Disorders<BR>Northwestern=20
University<BR>Searle Bldg. 2240 N. Campus Drive<BR>Evanston, IL=20
60208</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------
-=
--------------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C4225B.A16FBF00--

------------------------------

End of AUDITORY Digest - 14 Apr 2004 (#2004-80)
***********************************************