Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Auditory EEG Baseline Test From: "Prof. Efthymios Papatzikis" <efp331@xxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2025 12:25:19 +0300--Apple-Mail=_4A21E424-AFC4-4D7B-8A0D-FDA60C18B429 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Malcom and colleagues,=20 Thank you for opening this discussion about ear-EEG devices. =20 Have you perhaps encountered any system that can be potentially adapted = to children and infants for auditory research? (i.e., due to smaller, = differentiated anatomically ears - perhaps ways also to deal with = spatial precision that is more messy in infants than in adults?).=20 Best,=20 Efthymios > On 30 Jun 2025, at 13:11, Alejandro Valdes = <000003fb0a786fb9-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >=20 > Hi Malcolm, > =20 > We've put together a validation toolkit for ear-EEG devices trying to = help with this issue of evaluating the limits of the devices, you can = access it here (https://osf.io/2dxs4/). One component of the toolkit is = a series of EEG paradigms that run on psychopy. The detailed publication = is here (https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/24/4/1226). ASSR and Alpha Block = would be the simplest to figure out whether you are getting anything = useful or not. > =20 > Kind regards > Alejandro >=20 > On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 at 07:47, Dr. Stefan Strahl <stef@xxxxxxxx = <mailto:stef@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: >> Hello Malcolm, >>=20 >> One idea could be to perform an ABR amplitude growth function as=20 >> commonly used in ENT clinics, see for example [1]. That would not=20 >> involve a test of the behavioural feedback part of your setup, but=20 >> verify the EEG recording signal chain. And it has the advantage that = you=20 >> also gather a good characterization of the auditory system of the=20 >> participants which might prove useful in the analysis (individual=20 >> threshold, slope, latencies). >>=20 >> Greetings from a sunny Europe, >> Stefan >>=20 >> [1] = https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1879729623000534 >>=20 >> Am 2025-06-29 05:45, schrieb Malcolm Slaney: >> > What is a good test we can do to verify that we have a working = ear-EEG=20 >> > setup with new EEG equipment? Is there a standard test we can run=20= >> > before each subject to insure we are getting good data? >> >=20 >> > An ASSR test, a MMN test? Something short, reliable, and easy to=20= >> > quantify that we have good data. We are going to be playing with=20= >> > several different kinds of EEG equipment at the Telluride = Neuromorphic=20 >> > Workshop this week, and I=E2=80=99d love to have a go-no-go test = before we=20 >> > collect more complicated experiments (like attention decoding). >> >=20 >> > Is there a standard? What do people recommend? >> >=20 >> > Thanks. >> >=20 >> > =E2=80=94 Malcolm --Apple-Mail=_4A21E424-AFC4-4D7B-8A0D-FDA60C18B429 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Hi Malcom and = colleagues, <div><br></div><div>Thank you for opening this = discussion about ear-EEG devices. = </div><div><br></div><div>Have you perhaps encountered any = system that can be potentially adapted to children and infants for = auditory research? (i.e., due to smaller, differentiated anatomically = ears - perhaps ways also to deal with spatial precision that is more = messy in infants than in = adults?). </div><div><br></div><div>Best, </div><div>Efthymios</= div><div><br></div><div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On 30 = Jun 2025, at 13:11, Alejandro Valdes = <000003fb0a786fb9-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif;">Hi Malcolm,</div><p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" = style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <= /p><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif;">We've put together a validation toolkit for ear-EEG devices trying to help with this issue of evaluating the limits of the = devices, you can access it here (<a href=3D"https://osf.io/2dxs4/" = style=3D"color:rgb(70,120,134)">https://osf.io/2dxs4/</a>). One component of the toolkit is a series of EEG paradigms that run on = psychopy. The detailed publication is here (<a = href=3D"https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/24/4/1226" = style=3D"color:rgb(70,120,134)">https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/24/4/1226</= a>). ASSR and Alpha Block would be the simplest to figure out whether you are getting anything useful or not.</div><p class=3D"gmail-MsoPlainText" = style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <= /p><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif;">Kind regards</div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: = 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Alejandro</div></div><br><div = class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 at 07:47, Dr. Stefan Strahl = <<a href=3D"mailto:stef@xxxxxxxx">stef@xxxxxxxx</a>> = wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px = 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid = rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello Malcolm,<br> <br> One idea could be to perform an ABR amplitude growth function as <br> commonly used in ENT clinics, see for example [1]. That would not <br> involve a test of the behavioural feedback part of your setup, but <br> verify the EEG recording signal chain. And it has the advantage that you = <br> also gather a good characterization of the auditory system of the <br> participants which might prove useful in the analysis (individual <br> threshold, slope, latencies).<br> <br> Greetings from a sunny Europe,<br> Stefan<br> <br> [1] <a = href=3D"https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187972962300053= 4" rel=3D"noreferrer" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S18797= 29623000534</a><br> <br> Am 2025-06-29 05:45, schrieb Malcolm Slaney:<br> > What is a good test we can do to verify that we have a working = ear-EEG <br> > setup with new EEG equipment? Is there a standard test we can = run <br> > before each subject to insure we are getting good data?<br> > <br> > An ASSR test, a MMN test? Something short, reliable, and easy = to <br> > quantify that we have good data. We are going to be playing = with <br> > several different kinds of EEG equipment at the Telluride = Neuromorphic <br> > Workshop this week, and I=E2=80=99d love to have a go-no-go test = before we <br> > collect more complicated experiments (like attention decoding).<br> > <br> > Is there a standard? What do people recommend?<br> > <br> > Thanks.<br> > <br> > =E2=80=94 Malcolm<br> </blockquote></div> </div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_4A21E424-AFC4-4D7B-8A0D-FDA60C18B429--