Re: [AUDITORY] better listserv tech (Wasmann, Jan-Willem)

Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] better listserv tech From: Wasmann, Jan-Willem <"Wasmann, Jan-Willem"> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 13:40:24 +0000 --_000_DB7PR09MB23799A33BB4D7231848A8220DFBC2DB7PR09MB2379eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list, It's very hard to find systems that will still work a decade from now. In o= ur field, I=92m often impressed by the longevity of cochlear implants. I so= metimes ask my patients what technology they have that they also used 25 ye= ars ago (maybe their alarm clock?). So, maybe better not to change a winning team? With the computational audio= logy network (CAN), we briefly used Slack actively, as a community system /= messenger system. Until Slack changed the conditions for free use. We ende= d up needing to pay 1500 dollars per month to continue using the services w= e had taken for granted. So our network on Slack imploded. Another downside= was that most people didn't log in regularly. Actually, we are still looki= ng for a free, open-source alternative for the CAN community to use. So if = people on this list have suggestions of adequate and affordable platforms, = please let me know. Two improvements I could think of for this list are a weekly digest (or doe= s that already exist?) and a way to prevent most messages from ending up in= my spam folder (a problem with Microsoft). My two cents, Jan-Willem Van: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> = Namens Krzysztof Basinski Verzonden: donderdag 17 april 2025 10:22 Aan: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Onderwerp: Re: [AUDITORY] better listserv tech Hi all, As Dan mentioned that the current setup is implicitly acceptable to most, I= thought I=92d just state explicitly why it=92s acceptable to myself: 1. This list is a wonderful, almost indispensable source of information. 2. It is great that it is oldschool and it works. Every new tech has caveat= s that may not be immediately apparent (maintenance, privacy issues, hidden= costs). If you want extra features, you can always do it on the client sid= e (fancy email clients, AI if you don=92t mind them reading your mail, etc)= . 3. It is extremely important that the list does not rely on a megacorp (Goo= gle) for tech. There are multiple political, ethical and practical reasons = for this. Bottom line is that the AUDITORY list is by now an important piec= e of the history of auditory science. We need to be careful with it, as wit= h any historic artefact. Last thing you want to do is to hand over a Da Vin= ci painting to Google for safe keeping, right? Sorry for being a bit over t= he top with the analogy but I hope the point is clear. 4. Dan Ellis does great work. Best, Chris On 16 Apr 2025, at 17:45, Dan Ellis <dan.ellis@xxxxxxxx<mailto:dan.ellis@xxxxxxxx= mail.com>> wrote: Since my name was mentioned... A few years back I suggested moving the list to Google Groups. (At that ti= me, McGill was having some problems with their listserv setup, but it seems= fine now.) My interest in Google Groups was that it was modern and probab= ly long-lasting, but many people were (I think) uncomfortable ceding contro= l to a megacorp, so no action was taken. We have a very large and diverse membership, which inclines me to stick wit= h what we have -- which is, implicitly, acceptable to most (although we hav= e had dozens of departures in the past few weeks). I regret that the flexi= bility isn't as great as some would wish, but my feeling is it works pretty= well. Thanks for the constructive discussion. DAn. De informatie in dit bericht is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. = Aan dit bericht en de bijlagen kunnen geen rechten worden ontleend. Heeft u= deze e-mail onbedoeld ontvangen? Dan verzoeken wij u het te vernietigen en= de afzender te informeren. Openbaar maken, kopi=EBren en verspreiden van d= eze e-mail of informatie uit deze e-mail is alleen toegestaan met voorafgaa= nde schriftelijke toestemming van de afzender. Het Radboudumc staat geregis= treerd bij de Kamer van Koophandel in het handelsregister onder nummer 8026= 2783. The content of this message is intended solely for the addressee. No rights= can be derived from this message or its attachments. If you are not the in= tended recipient, we kindly request you to delete the message and inform th= e sender. It is strictly prohibited to disclose, copy or distribute this em= ail or the information inside it, without a written consent from the sender= . Radboud university medical center is registered with the Dutch Chamber of= Commerce trade register with number 80262783. --_000_DB7PR09MB23799A33BB4D7231848A8220DFBC2DB7PR09MB2379eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1= 250"> <style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo= ttom:0;} </style> </head> <body dir=3D"ltr"> Dear list, It's very hard to find systems that will still work a decade from now. In o= ur field, I=92m often impressed by the longevity of cochlear implants. I so= metimes ask my patients what technology they have that they also used 25 ye= ars ago (maybe their alarm clock?).   So, maybe better not to change a winning team? With the computational audio= logy network (CAN), we briefly used Slack actively, as a community system /= messenger system. Until Slack changed the conditions for free use. We ende= d up needing to pay 1500 dollars per month to continue using the services we had taken for granted. So our = network on Slack imploded. Another downside was that most people didn't log= in regularly. Actually, we are still looking for a free, open-source alter= native for the CAN community to use. So if people on this list have suggestions of adequate and affordable= platforms, please let me know. Two improvements I could think of for = this list are a weekly digest (or does that already exist?) and a way to pr= event most messages from ending up in my spam folder (a problem with Micros= oft). My two cents, Jan-Willem         <div style=3D"padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm; border-top: 1pt solid rgb(225, 225, 225= );"> Van: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx= LISTS.MCGILL.CA> Namens Krzysztof Basinski Verzonden: donderdag 17 april 2025 10:22 Aan: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Onderwerp: Re: [AUDITORY] better listserv tech </div>   Hi all,   As Dan mentioned that the current setup is implicitly acceptable to most, I thought I=92d just state expli= citly why it=92s acceptable to myself:   1. This list is a wonderful, almost indispensable source of information.<= /p> 2. It is great that it is oldschool and it works. Every new tech has cave= ats that may not be immediately apparent (maintenance, privacy issues, hidd= en costs). If you want extra features, you can always do it on the client side (fancy email clients, AI if you do= n=92t mind them reading your mail, etc). 3. It is extremely important that the list does not rely on a megacorp (G= oogle) for tech. There are multiple political, ethical and practical reason= s for this. Bottom line is that the AUDITORY list is by now an important piece of the history of auditory scie= nce. We need to be careful with it, as with any historic artefact. Last thi= ng you want to do is to hand over a Da Vinci painting to Google for safe ke= eping, right? Sorry for being a bit over the top with the analogy but I hope the point is clear. 4. Dan Ellis does great work.   Best, Chris   <blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> On 16 Apr 2025, at 17:45, Dan Ellis <<= a href=3D"mailto:dan.ellis@xxxxxxxx" id=3D"OWA334a0037-2c91-89ee-388e-f33a= 93c7eaff" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" style=3D"color: blue; margin-top: 0px; marg= in-bottom: 0px;">dan.ellis@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:   Since my name was mentioned...     A few years back I suggested moving the list to Google Groups.  (At = that time, McGill was having some problems with their listserv setup, but i= t seems fine now.)  My interest in Google Groups was that it was modern and probably long-lasting, but many people w= ere (I think) uncomfortable ceding control to a megacorp, so no action was = taken.   We have a very large and diverse membership, which inclines me to stick w= ith what we have -- which is, implicitly, acceptable to most (although we h= ave had dozens of departures in the past few weeks).  I regret that the flexibility isn't as great as som= e would wish, but my feeling is it works pretty well.   Thanks for the constructive discussion.     DAn. </blockquote>   De informa= tie in dit bericht is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Aan dit be= richt en de bijlagen kunnen geen rechten worden ontleend. Heeft u deze e-ma= il onbedoeld ontvangen? Dan verzoeken wij u het te vernietigen en de afzender te informeren. Openbaar maken, kop= i=EBren en verspreiden van deze e-mail of informatie uit deze e-mail is all= een toegestaan met voorafgaande schriftelijke toestemming van de afzender. = Het Radboudumc staat geregistreerd bij de Kamer van Koophandel in het handelsregister onder nummer 80262783.<= br> The content of this message is intended solely for the addressee. No rights= can be derived from this message or its attachments. If you are not the in= tended recipient, we kindly request you to delete the message and inform th= e sender. It is strictly prohibited to disclose, copy or distribute this email or the information inside it, w= ithout a written consent from the sender. Radboud university medical center= is registered with the Dutch Chamber of Commerce trade register with numbe= r 80262783. </body> </html> --_000_DB7PR09MB23799A33BB4D7231848A8220DFBC2DB7PR09MB2379eurp_--

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DAn Ellis <dpwe@ee.columbia.edu>
Electrical Engineering Dept., Columbia University