Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] better listserv tech From: JONATHAN SAUNDERS <jommy@xxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2025 15:40:03 -0700--0000000000000549440632d8daf5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Absolutely heard reasons to stick with email - thankfully email is very easy to bridge! Discourse can work via email in a way very similar to a listserv (receive and send), and writing an email bridge to a federated protocol (which doesn't necessarily need to behave like social media) would take an afternoon. Only pitching options in case this community finds them useful, no pressure= . On Tue, Apr 15, 2025, 01:27 Marc <marcs@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > Dear all, > > Three brief arguments against moving to a social media platform: > - Stability: Email and listserv are old protocols, but they are stable an= d > unlikely to disappear. Most platforms that the list could have moved to i= n > the 90s, 2000s, and 2010s do not exist anymore. > - Access: Every researcher and student at a university or scientific > institute gets an email address through their institution. Email is less > likely to be blocked by a country than a social network. > - Ease of use: listserv provides user-level moderation (including > unsubscribe, as Dan reminded us a few days ago). In addition, all email > clients can filter and block messages by subject/thread. Other protocols > will have other complications ("Users have been slow to embrace the > Fediverse due to poor user experience and excessive complexity." -from th= e > Wikipedia entry). > > I think the old-timey and slower nature of email may have also insulated > us from undesirable aspects of social network platforms. > But perhaps this is not what Dan meant at all in his comment to Sam. If a > newer list server is easier to administrate for him, I'd be all for it. > > Marc > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Dean, Dept of Life Sciences > Professor of Neurobiology > Department of Biology > University of Leipzig > Talstrasse 33 > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Talstrasse+33?entry=3Dgmail&source=3D= g> > __o > 04103 Leipzig _`\<,_ > +493419736723 (+) / (+) > & Department of Psychology > University of Montreal > Montreal, Quebec, Canada > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > On 15. Apr 2025, at 06:51, JONATHAN SAUNDERS <jommy@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > "This meeting (listserv) could have been an email (fediverse instance)" > > > > This is the space I work in now, and I think the standard replacement > would probably be discourse for a closed group, an activitypub instance f= or > a semi-open group (e.g. with closed federation if needed), or atproto > appview for world-public group. > > > > Happy to help keep an old group alive if that's what's needed at the > moment :) > > > >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2025, 21:36 Samuel Mehr <sam@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> Hi folks, I was thinking it would be cool if members of the Auditory > list had more control over what they see from the list and I wonder if > there would be support for moving it from the 'classic' listserv (a > physical server, I think, someplace in Montr=C3=A9al) to something more m= odern > with user-level moderation tools. For example, the ability to mute a thre= ad > while still seeing other messages to the list would be nice. > >> > >> Awhile back Dan Ellis mentioned to me that some years ago there was > discussion of moving to a more modern server but some people didn't like > the idea. This may be worth revisiting =E2=80=94 many of us find the Audi= tory list > useful for recruiting students, crowdsourcing help for various esoteric > questions, hearing about new papers, uniting a rather disparate set of > subfields, and so on, but the very outdated tech of the listserv makes it > more difficult than necessary to use and participate in. > >> > >> Sam > >> > >> =E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94 > >> Samuel Mehr > >> School of Psychology, University of Auckland > >> and Child Study Center, Yale University > >> Be a citizen scientist at themusiclab.org! > --0000000000000549440632d8daf5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto">Absolutely heard reasons to stick with email - thankfully= email is very easy to bridge! Discourse can work via email in a way very s= imilar to a listserv (receive and send), and writing an email bridge to a f= ederated protocol (which doesn't necessarily need to behave like social= media) would take an afternoon.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"aut= o">Only pitching options in case this community finds them useful, no press= ure.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div d= ir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 15, 2025, 01:27 Marc <<a hre= f=3D"mailto:marcs@xxxxxxxx">marcs@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br></= div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef= t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Dear all,<br> <br> Three brief arguments against moving to a social media platform:<br> - Stability: Email and listserv are old protocols, but they are stable and = unlikely to disappear. Most platforms that the list could have moved to in = the 90s, 2000s, and 2010s do not exist anymore.<br> - Access: Every researcher and student at a university or scientific instit= ute gets an email address through their institution. Email is less likely t= o be blocked by a country than a social network.<br> - Ease of use: listserv provides user-level moderation (including unsubscri= be, as Dan reminded us a few days ago). In addition, all email clients can = filter and block messages by subject/thread. Other protocols will have othe= r complications ("Users have been slow to embrace the Fediverse due to= poor user experience and excessive complexity." -from the Wikipedia e= ntry).<br> <br> I think the old-timey and slower nature of email may have also insulated us= from undesirable aspects of social network platforms.<br> But perhaps this is not what Dan meant at all in his comment to Sam. If a n= ewer list server is easier to administrate for him, I'd be all for it. = <br> <br> Marc<br> <br> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br> Dean, Dept of Life Sciences<br> Professor=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 Neurobiology<br> Department of Biology<br> University of Leipzig<br> <a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/Talstrasse+33?entry=3Dgmail&a= mp;source=3Dg">Talstrasse 33</a>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0__o<br> 04103 Leipzig=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_`\<,_<br> +493419736723=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (+) / (+)<br> & Department of Psychology<br> University=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 Montreal<br> Montreal, Quebec, Canada<br> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br> > <br> > On 15. Apr 2025, at 06:51, JONATHAN SAUNDERS <<a href=3D"mailto:jom= my@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">jommy@xxxxxxxx</a>>= ; wrote:<br> > <br> > "This meeting (listserv) could have been an email (fediverse inst= ance)"<br> > <br> > This is the space I work in now, and I think the standard replacement = would probably be discourse for a closed group, an activitypub instance for= a semi-open group (e.g. with closed federation if needed), or atproto appv= iew for world-public group.<br> > <br> > Happy to help keep an old group alive if that's what's needed = at the moment :)<br> > <br> >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2025, 21:36 Samuel Mehr <<a href=3D"mailto:sam@xxxxxxxx= auckland.ac.nz" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">sam@xxxxxxxx</a>= > wrote:<br> >> Hi folks, I was thinking it would be cool if members of the Audito= ry list had more control over what they see from the list and I wonder if t= here would be support for moving it from the 'classic' listserv (a = physical server, I think, someplace in Montr=C3=A9al) to something more mod= ern with user-level moderation tools. For example, the ability to mute a th= read while still seeing other messages to the list would be nice.<br> >> <br> >> Awhile back Dan Ellis mentioned to me that some years ago there wa= s discussion of moving to a more modern server but some people didn't l= ike the idea. This may be worth revisiting =E2=80=94 many of us find the Au= ditory list useful for recruiting students, crowdsourcing help for various = esoteric questions, hearing about new papers, uniting a rather disparate se= t of subfields, and so on, but the very outdated tech of the listserv makes= it more difficult than necessary to use and participate in.<br> >> <br> >> Sam<br> >> <br> >> =E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94<br> >> Samuel Mehr<br> >> School of Psychology, University of Auckland<br> >> and Child Study Center, Yale University<br> >> Be a citizen scientist at <a href=3D"http://themusiclab.org" rel= =3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">themusiclab.org</a>!<br> </blockquote></div> --0000000000000549440632d8daf5--