Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] better listserv tech From: Douglas Scott <jdmusictuition@xxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2025 08:33:14 -0400--000000000000632c610632d13970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Marc My concerns can also be summed as avoiding the "undesirable aspects of social network platforms". But I think at this stage, user level moderation might be required to do so. As long as there's no algorithmic moderation and content forwarding involved, haha. Doug On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 at 04:23, Marc <marcs@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > Dear all, > > Three brief arguments against moving to a social media platform: > - Stability: Email and listserv are old protocols, but they are stable an= d > unlikely to disappear. Most platforms that the list could have moved to i= n > the 90s, 2000s, and 2010s do not exist anymore. > - Access: Every researcher and student at a university or scientific > institute gets an email address through their institution. Email is less > likely to be blocked by a country than a social network. > - Ease of use: listserv provides user-level moderation (including > unsubscribe, as Dan reminded us a few days ago). In addition, all email > clients can filter and block messages by subject/thread. Other protocols > will have other complications ("Users have been slow to embrace the > Fediverse due to poor user experience and excessive complexity." -from th= e > Wikipedia entry). > > I think the old-timey and slower nature of email may have also insulated > us from undesirable aspects of social network platforms. > But perhaps this is not what Dan meant at all in his comment to Sam. If a > newer list server is easier to administrate for him, I'd be all for it. > > Marc > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Dean, Dept of Life Sciences > Professor of Neurobiology > Department of Biology > University of Leipzig > Talstrasse 33 __o > 04103 Leipzig _`\<,_ > +493419736723 (+) / (+) > & Department of Psychology > University of Montreal > Montreal, Quebec, Canada > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > On 15. Apr 2025, at 06:51, JONATHAN SAUNDERS <jommy@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > "This meeting (listserv) could have been an email (fediverse instance)" > > > > This is the space I work in now, and I think the standard replacement > would probably be discourse for a closed group, an activitypub instance f= or > a semi-open group (e.g. with closed federation if needed), or atproto > appview for world-public group. > > > > Happy to help keep an old group alive if that's what's needed at the > moment :) > > > >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2025, 21:36 Samuel Mehr <sam@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> Hi folks, I was thinking it would be cool if members of the Auditory > list had more control over what they see from the list and I wonder if > there would be support for moving it from the 'classic' listserv (a > physical server, I think, someplace in Montr=C3=A9al) to something more m= odern > with user-level moderation tools. For example, the ability to mute a thre= ad > while still seeing other messages to the list would be nice. > >> > >> Awhile back Dan Ellis mentioned to me that some years ago there was > discussion of moving to a more modern server but some people didn't like > the idea. This may be worth revisiting =E2=80=94 many of us find the Audi= tory list > useful for recruiting students, crowdsourcing help for various esoteric > questions, hearing about new papers, uniting a rather disparate set of > subfields, and so on, but the very outdated tech of the listserv makes it > more difficult than necessary to use and participate in. > >> > >> Sam > >> > >> =E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94 > >> Samuel Mehr > >> School of Psychology, University of Auckland > >> and Child Study Center, Yale University > >> Be a citizen scientist at themusiclab.org! > --000000000000632c610632d13970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Marc<div><br></div><div>My concerns can also be summed = as avoiding the "undesirable aspects of social network platforms"= . But I think at this stage, user level moderation might be required to do = so. As long as there's no algorithmic moderation and content forwarding= involved, haha.<br><br>Doug</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail= _quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, 15 Apr 2025= at 04:23, Marc <<a href=3D"mailto:marcs@xxxxxxxx">marcs@xxxxxxxx= ig.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma= rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:= 1ex">Dear all,<br> <br> Three brief arguments against moving to a social media platform:<br> - Stability: Email and listserv are old protocols, but they are stable and = unlikely to disappear. Most platforms that the list could have moved to in = the 90s, 2000s, and 2010s do not exist anymore.<br> - Access: Every researcher and student at a university or scientific instit= ute gets an email address through their institution. Email is less likely t= o be blocked by a country than a social network.<br> - Ease of use: listserv provides user-level moderation (including unsubscri= be, as Dan reminded us a few days ago). In addition, all email clients can = filter and block messages by subject/thread. Other protocols will have othe= r complications ("Users have been slow to embrace the Fediverse due to= poor user experience and excessive complexity." -from the Wikipedia e= ntry).<br> <br> I think the old-timey and slower nature of email may have also insulated us= from undesirable aspects of social network platforms.<br> But perhaps this is not what Dan meant at all in his comment to Sam. If a n= ewer list server is easier to administrate for him, I'd be all for it. = <br> <br> Marc<br> <br> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br> Dean, Dept of Life Sciences<br> Professor=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 Neurobiology<br> Department of Biology<br> University of Leipzig<br> Talstrasse 33=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__o<br> 04103 Leipzig=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_`\<,_<br> +493419736723=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (+) / (+)<br> & Department of Psychology<br> University=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 Montreal<br> Montreal, Quebec, Canada<br> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br> > <br> > On 15. Apr 2025, at 06:51, JONATHAN SAUNDERS <<a href=3D"mailto:jom= my@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">jommy@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br> > <br> > "This meeting (listserv) could have been an email (fediverse inst= ance)"<br> > <br> > This is the space I work in now, and I think the standard replacement = would probably be discourse for a closed group, an activitypub instance for= a semi-open group (e.g. with closed federation if needed), or atproto appv= iew for world-public group.<br> > <br> > Happy to help keep an old group alive if that's what's needed = at the moment :)<br> > <br> >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2025, 21:36 Samuel Mehr <<a href=3D"mailto:sam@xxxxxxxx= auckland.ac.nz" target=3D"_blank">sam@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br> >> Hi folks, I was thinking it would be cool if members of the Audito= ry list had more control over what they see from the list and I wonder if t= here would be support for moving it from the 'classic' listserv (a = physical server, I think, someplace in Montr=C3=A9al) to something more mod= ern with user-level moderation tools. For example, the ability to mute a th= read while still seeing other messages to the list would be nice.<br> >> <br> >> Awhile back Dan Ellis mentioned to me that some years ago there wa= s discussion of moving to a more modern server but some people didn't l= ike the idea. This may be worth revisiting =E2=80=94 many of us find the Au= ditory list useful for recruiting students, crowdsourcing help for various = esoteric questions, hearing about new papers, uniting a rather disparate se= t of subfields, and so on, but the very outdated tech of the listserv makes= it more difficult than necessary to use and participate in.<br> >> <br> >> Sam<br> >> <br> >> =E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94<br> >> Samuel Mehr<br> >> School of Psychology, University of Auckland<br> >> and Child Study Center, Yale University<br> >> Be a citizen scientist at <a href=3D"http://themusiclab.org" rel= =3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">themusiclab.org</a>!<br> </blockquote></div> --000000000000632c610632d13970--