Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Frequency + Political Acoustics From: "Richard F. Lyon" <0000030301ff4bce-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2025 22:10:22 -0700--000000000000a9788206328dd6fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Adam, Thanks for bringing us back to topics more germane to the list. (While I agree there's a lot that needs to be discussed about the current state of craziness in the U.S., I also agree that this list is probably not so great a place to take that on. I realize I'm speaking from a position of almost-retired and already signed up for Social Security, so not as much affected as many. When I was out on the "Hands Off" protest march, Auditory was not on my mind.) I took a glance at your paper, and it looks to me like you didn't do a clear enough job of distinguishing different notions of frequency (maybe I need to read more). Pitch, though a perceptual concept, is very closely related to the concept of frequency as repetition rate. In physics and math, however, frequency is often thought of as a parameter of a Fourier transform, more related to sinusoids, or circular motion, than to repetition. Your paper barely mentions pitch, but I think it's a concept that might help make some of your points better. I look forward to reading more of it. Dick On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 9:31=E2=80=AFPM Adam Weisser <adam_weisser@xxxxxxxx= .fm> wrote: > Dear all, > > I would like to share with you my latest piece on the topic of frequency. > While it is not strictly within auditory science, this work would have > never materialized if it weren't for the deeply-ingrained approach to > acoustic signals that has time and frequency as more or less independent > dimensions - two attributes of sound that are interrelated, but which we > generally perceive as essentially different. Contrasting this understandi= ng > with the fundamental definition of frequency in physics - the reciprocal = of > the period - leaves much to be elucidated and is duly riddled with > paradoxes. > > In this manuscript, I review the different instantiations of the concept > of frequency in physics, engineering, mathematics, and perception, > partially tracing their historical evolution, in attempt to answer the > question of whether frequency can be counted as a separate dimension of > reality, in addition to space and time. The resolution ties together time= , > frequency, and determinism in a highly counterintuitive manner: > > https://zenodo.org/records/15162477 > > While I have no illusions regarding how this text (and its author) may > come across given the extraordinary claims put forth, I have tried to go > about it in the most rigorous way I could, while methodically scrutinizin= g > some long-held dogmas in the sciences, in hope of sparking further > discussion, somewhere down the road. > > For what it's worth, I'm indebted to what I have learned (or maybe, > mislearned) by virtue of being part of the auditory community. Yet, these > days appear to be challenging to many members of the Auditory List. I onc= e > had a good colleague (PKR) who lamented how we were never trained in > "political acoustics" in engineering school, that would have endowed us > with the necessary skill set to be able to juggle between the various > demands of our whimsical bosses. Even today, still nobody teaches this > subject, and people are expected to figure out this vital skill as they g= o > along, while trying to survive and stay true to what they were originally > hired to do. It's perhaps ironic, because in every other respect, hearing > science must be one of the most unifying and all-encompassing of all huma= n > endeavors, being positioned in the nexus between physics, biology, > psychology, neuroscience, perception, communication, language, music, > engineering, medicine, environment, architecture, computer science, > mathematics, and many other disciplines. All this is in opposition to > politics, which usually excels in sowing division, whether we are ready t= o > get directly involved with it or not. > > I hope that we can transcend these unpleasant times both as individuals > and as a community and eventually get back to what we do best, which is > study hearing and sound. > > With wishes for better times to come, > And thank you for your attention and time, > Adam. > --000000000000a9788206328dd6fa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Ada= m,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><d= iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Thanks=C2=A0for bringi= ng us back to topics more germane to the list.=C2=A0 (While I agree there&#= 39;s a lot that needs to be discussed about the current state of craziness = in the U.S., I also agree that this list is probably not so great a place t= o take that on.=C2=A0 I realize I'm speaking from a position of almost-= retired and already signed up for Social Security, so not as much affected = as many.=C2=A0 When I was out on the "Hands Off" protest march, A= uditory was not on my mind.)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:sma= ll">I took a glance at your paper, and it looks to me like you didn't d= o a clear enough job of distinguishing different notions of frequency=C2=A0= (maybe I need to read more).=C2=A0 Pitch, though a perceptual concept, is v= ery closely related to the concept of frequency as repetition rate.=C2=A0 I= n physics and math, however, frequency is often thought of as a parameter o= f a Fourier transform, more related to sinusoids, or circular motion, than = to repetition.=C2=A0 Your paper barely mentions pitch, but I think it's= a concept that might help make some of your points better.=C2=A0 I look fo= rward to reading more of it.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:sma= ll">Dick</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></= div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"= ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 9:31=E2=80=AFPM Adam Weis= ser <<a href=3D"mailto:adam_weisser@xxxxxxxx">adam_weisser@xxxxxxxx= m</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin= :0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"= ><div class=3D"msg-2369504623721741233"><u></u><div><div style=3D"font-fami= ly:Arial">Dear all,</div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial"><br></div><div st= yle=3D"font-family:Arial">I would like to share with you my latest piece on= the topic of frequency. While it is not strictly within auditory science, = this work would have never materialized if it weren't for the deeply-in= grained approach to acoustic signals that has time and frequency as more or= less independent dimensions - two attributes of sound that are interrelate= d, but which we generally perceive as essentially different. Contrasting th= is understanding with the fundamental definition of frequency in physics - = the reciprocal of the period=C2=A0 - leaves much to be elucidated and is du= ly riddled with paradoxes.</div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial"><br></div>= <div style=3D"font-family:Arial">In this manuscript, I review the different= instantiations of the concept of frequency in physics, engineering, mathem= atics, and perception, partially tracing their historical evolution, in att= empt to answer the question of whether frequency can be counted as a separa= te dimension of reality, in addition to space and time. The resolution ties= together time, frequency, and determinism in a highly counterintuitive man= ner:</div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style=3D"font-fam= ily:Arial"><a href=3D"https://zenodo.org/records/15162477" target=3D"_blank= ">https://zenodo.org/records/15162477</a></div><div style=3D"font-family:Ar= ial"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial">While I have no illusions r= egarding how this text (and its author) may come across given the extraordi= nary claims put forth, I have tried to go about it in the most rigorous way= I could, while methodically scrutinizing some long-held dogmas in the scie= nces, in hope of sparking further discussion, somewhere down the road.</div= ><div style=3D"font-family:Arial"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial= ">For what it's worth, I'm indebted to what I have learned (or mayb= e, mislearned) by virtue of being part of the auditory community. Yet, thes= e days appear to be challenging to many members of the Auditory List.=C2=A0= I once had a good colleague (PKR) who lamented how we were never trained in= "political acoustics" in engineering school, that would have end= owed us with the necessary skill set to be able to juggle between the vario= us demands of our whimsical bosses. Even today, still nobody teaches this s= ubject, and people are expected to figure out this vital skill as they go a= long, while trying to survive and stay true to what they were originally hi= red to do. It's perhaps ironic, because in every other respect, hearing= science must be one of the most unifying and all-encompassing of all human= endeavors, being positioned in the nexus between physics, biology, psychol= ogy, neuroscience, perception, communication, language, music, engineering,= medicine, environment, architecture, computer science, mathematics, and ma= ny other disciplines. All this is in opposition to politics, which=C2=A0usu= ally excels in sowing division, whether we are ready to get directly involv= ed with it or not.</div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial"><br></div><div sty= le=3D"font-family:Arial">I hope that we can transcend these unpleasant time= s both as individuals and as a community and eventually get back to what we= do best, which is study hearing and sound.</div><div style=3D"font-family:= Arial"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial">With wishes for better ti= mes to come,</div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial">And thank you for your a= ttention and time,</div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial">Adam.</div></div><= /div></blockquote></div> --000000000000a9788206328dd6fa--