Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Quality of discourse [was: Silence from leaders in auditory science] From: Peter Lennox <plennox@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2025 14:11:49 +0100--Apple-Mail-DC40815B-1F31-4B27-9D4D-C2DD7B7F4061 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =E2=80=9CThat=E2=80=99s just what I thought!=E2=80=9D Said Pooh Sent from my iPhone > On 9 Apr 2025, at 05:37, Brian FG Katz <brian.katz@xxxxxxxx>= wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Dear all (who are still members of this list), > =20 > I would like to say a few words, which are something of a paraphrasing of t= hings said in previous threads over the years for the same reason. > =20 > This email list is an international community in auditory science in the l= argest sense of the term. While there are events and questions of national/r= egional interest that occur around the world, it behoves list members to rem= ember that fact. While the situation in the USA at present is =E2=80=9Cdiffi= cult=E2=80=9D (understatement), and those not in the USA feel empathy for ou= r colleagues, and may have certain stronger feels toward the political decis= ions being made, they nevertheless remain political decisions for which the i= nternational community are but observers, without a vote. > =20 > I, for example, would not bring to this list a discussion on issues curren= tly being debated in France where large amounts of national funding would be= reserved for specific allocation to =E2=80=9Ckeylabs=E2=80=9D, that is labs= which are designated as the most funded, most prolific (i.e. give those wit= h money more money because they are doing something =E2=80=9Cright=E2=80=9D)= , something which puts all other researchers in the field at a disadvantage.= It is a fight we are having, but this list is not the forum, despite the nu= merous French researchers on the list, other than to inform list members in o= ther countries of how things are evolving elsewhere. > =20 > Several mentions have already been made of opportunities open to welcome r= esearchers in other countries, to help those who are so adventurous as to le= ave the USA. This is a clear action by those countries and senior scientists= in response to the situation within their power, far from silence. Internat= ional participation in the =E2=80=9CStand Up for Science=E2=80=9D movement i= n strong support of our American based colleagues is another example of such= empathy. I, myself, left the USA 25 years ago as there was little hope alre= ady at that time in obtaining funding in the areas of research that interest= ed me. =20 > =20 > Mention has also been made of using better avenues for action and national= related discussions. There are no doubt numerous national societies associa= ted with various disciplines of list members where more directed discussions= would seem more appropriate. > =20 > So, in summary, the calls to =E2=80=9CMove On=E2=80=9D are not to disrespe= ct the importance of the issue raised to those involved, but to highlight th= at this is probably not the audience for =E2=80=9Clocal=E2=80=9D political d= iscussions, unless the intention is to alienate those from outside. > =20 > And with that, I will end my 2-cents worth. > =20 > -Brian > -- > Brian FG Katz, Research Director, CNRS > Groupe Lutheries - Acoustique =E2=80=93 Musique > Sorbonne Universit=C3=A9, CNRS, UMR 7190, Institut Jean Le Rond =E2=88=82'= Alembert > http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz > =20 --Apple-Mail-DC40815B-1F31-4B27-9D4D-C2DD7B7F4061 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D= utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">=E2=80=9CThat=E2=80=99s just what I thought= !=E2=80=9D<div>Said Pooh<br id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir=3D= "ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite= ">On 9 Apr 2025, at 05:37, Brian FG Katz <brian.katz@xxxxxxxx= fr> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D= "ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; chars= et=3Dutf-8"><meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered m= edium)"><style>@xxxxxxxx { font-family: "Cambria Math"; } @xxxxxxxx { font-family: Calibri; } p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; fon= t-family: Calibri, sans-serif; } span.EmailStyle19 { font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; } .MsoChpDefault { } @xxxxxxxx WordSection1 { size: 612pt 792pt; margin: 70.85pt; } div.WordSection1 { page: WordSection1; }</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"Ms= oNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear all (who are still m= embers of this list), <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span sty= le=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3D"Ms= oNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I would like to say a fe= w words, which are something of a paraphrasing of things said in previous th= reads over the years for the same reason. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"= MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></spa= n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">This= email list is an international community in auditory science in the largest= sense of the term. While there are events and questions of national/regiona= l interest that occur around the world, it behoves list members to remember t= hat fact. While the situation in the USA at present is =E2=80=9Cdifficult=E2= =80=9D (understatement), and those not in the USA feel empathy for our colle= agues, and may have certain stronger feels toward the political decisions be= ing made, they nevertheless remain political decisions for which the interna= tional community are but observers, without a vote.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p c= lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o= :p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-= US">I, for example, would not bring to this list a discussion on issues curr= ently being debated in France where large amounts of national funding would b= e reserved for specific allocation to =E2=80=9Ckeylabs=E2=80=9D, that is lab= s which are designated as the most funded, most prolific (i.e. give those wi= th money more money because they are doing something =E2=80=9Cright=E2=80=9D= ), something which puts all other researchers in the field at a disadvantage= . It is a fight we are having, but this list is not the forum, despite the n= umerous French researchers on the list, other than to inform list members in= other countries of how things are evolving elsewhere. <o:p></o:p></span></p= ><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs= p;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-languag= e:EN-US">Several mentions have already been made of opportunities open to we= lcome researchers in other countries, to help those who are so adventurous a= s to leave the USA. This is a clear action by those countries and senior sci= entists in response to the situation within their power, far from silence. I= nternational participation in the =E2=80=9CStand Up for Science=E2=80=9D mov= ement in strong support of our American based colleagues is another example o= f such empathy. I, myself, left the USA 25 years ago as there was little hop= e already at that time in obtaining funding in the areas of research that in= terested me. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D= "mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm= al"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Mention has also been made of= using better avenues for action and national related discussions. There are= no doubt numerous national societies associated with various disciplines of= list members where more directed discussions would seem more appropriate. <= o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-langu= age:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D= "mso-fareast-language:EN-US">So, in summary, the calls to =E2=80=9CMove On=E2= =80=9D are not to disrespect the importance of the issue raised to those inv= olved, but to highlight that this is probably not the audience for =E2=80=9C= local=E2=80=9D political discussions, unless the intention is to alienate th= ose from outside. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D= "mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm= al"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">And with that, I will end my 2= -cents worth.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso= -fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">= <span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">-Brian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl= ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p c= lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Brian FG Katz, Research Dir= ector, CNRS</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" st= yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Groupe Lutheries - Acoustique =E2=80=93= Musique</span><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal= "><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Sorbonne Univer= sit=C3=A9, CNRS, UMR 7190, Institut Jean Le Rond =E2=88=82'Alembert </span><= span lang=3D"FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"= FR" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><a href=3D"http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/kat= z">http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz</a></span><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p><= /o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"mso-fareas= t-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div= ></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-DC40815B-1F31-4B27-9D4D-C2DD7B7F4061--