Re: [AUDITORY] Quality of discourse [was: Silence from leaders in auditory science] (Douglas Scott )

Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Quality of discourse [was: Silence from leaders in auditory science] From: Douglas Scott <jdmusictuition@xxxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2025 23:07:48 -0400 --000000000000d5dd72063278db3a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Brian Thanks for this excellent post. It mirrors my sentiments very closely. For what it's worth, the abysmal plight of early career researchers and continued tacit institutional endorsement of publish or perish culture are much more pressing concerns if politics absolutely have to be discussed. Doug On Wed, 9 Apr 2025 at 00:37, Brian FG Katz < brian.katz@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > Dear all (who are still members of this list), > > > > I would like to say a few words, which are something of a paraphrasing of > things said in previous threads over the years for the same reason. > > > > This email list is an international community in auditory science in the > largest sense of the term. While there are events and questions of > national/regional interest that occur around the world, it behoves list > members to remember that fact. While the situation in the USA at present = is > =E2=80=9Cdifficult=E2=80=9D (understatement), and those not in the USA fe= el empathy for our > colleagues, and may have certain stronger feels toward the political > decisions being made, they nevertheless remain political decisions for > which the international community are but observers, without a vote. > > > > I, for example, would not bring to this list a discussion on issues > currently being debated in France where large amounts of national funding > would be reserved for specific allocation to =E2=80=9Ckeylabs=E2=80=9D, t= hat is labs which > are designated as the most funded, most prolific (i.e. give those with > money more money because they are doing something =E2=80=9Cright=E2=80=9D= ), something which > puts all other researchers in the field at a disadvantage. It is a fight = we > are having, but this list is not the forum, despite the numerous French > researchers on the list, other than to inform list members in other > countries of how things are evolving elsewhere. > > > > Several mentions have already been made of opportunities open to welcome > researchers in other countries, to help those who are so adventurous as t= o > leave the USA. This is a clear action by those countries and senior > scientists in response to the situation within their power, far from > silence. International participation in the =E2=80=9CStand Up for Science= =E2=80=9D movement > in strong support of our American based colleagues is another example of > such empathy. I, myself, left the USA 25 years ago as there was little ho= pe > already at that time in obtaining funding in the areas of research that > interested me. > > > > Mention has also been made of using better avenues for action and nationa= l > related discussions. There are no doubt numerous national societies > associated with various disciplines of list members where more directed > discussions would seem more appropriate. > > > > So, in summary, the calls to =E2=80=9CMove On=E2=80=9D are not to disresp= ect the > importance of the issue raised to those involved, but to highlight that > this is probably not the audience for =E2=80=9Clocal=E2=80=9D political d= iscussions, unless > the intention is to alienate those from outside. > > > > And with that, I will end my 2-cents worth. > > > > -Brian > > -- > > Brian FG Katz, Research Director, CNRS > > Groupe Lutheries - Acoustique =E2=80=93 Musique > > Sorbonne Universit=C3=A9, CNRS, UMR 7190, Institut Jean Le Rond =E2=88=82= 'Alembert > > http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz > > > --000000000000d5dd72063278db3a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Brian Thanks for this excellent post. It mirrors= my sentiments very closely. For what it's worth, the abysmal pl= ight of early career researchers and continued tacit institutional endorsem= ent of publish or perish culture are much more pressing concerns if politic= s absolutely have to be discussed. <div> </div><div>Doug</div></div><= br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class= =3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, 9 Apr 2025 at 00:37, Brian FG Katz <<a href=3D"m= ailto:brian.katz@xxxxxxxx">brian.katz@xxxxxxxx<= /a>> wrote: </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0= px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><= div class=3D"msg400354658946280461"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"overflow-w= rap: break-word;"><div class=3D"m_400354658946280461WordSection1">Dear all (who are still members of this list), = =C2=A0<= /p>I would like to say a few words, which are = something of a paraphrasing of things said in previous threads over the yea= rs for the same reason. <sp= an>=C2=A0This email l= ist is an international community in auditory science in the largest sense = of the term. While there are events and questions of national/regional inte= rest that occur around the world, it behoves list members to remember that = fact. While the situation in the USA at present is =E2=80=9Cdifficult=E2=80= =9D (understatement), and those not in the USA feel empathy for our colleag= ues, and may have certain stronger feels toward the political decisions bei= ng made, they nevertheless remain political decisions for which the interna= tional community are but observers, without a vote.</p= >=C2=A0I, for example, would not bring to this list a discussion on= issues currently being debated in France where large amounts of national f= unding would be reserved for specific allocation to =E2=80=9Ckeylabs=E2=80= =9D, that is labs which are designated as the most funded, most prolific (i= .e. give those with money more money because they are doing something =E2= =80=9Cright=E2=80=9D), something which puts all other researchers in the fi= eld at a disadvantage. It is a fight we are having, but this list is not th= e forum, despite the numerous French researchers on the list, other than to= inform list members in other countries of how things are evolving elsewher= e. =C2=A0</= u>Several mentions have already bee= n made of opportunities open to welcome researchers in other countries, to = help those who are so adventurous as to leave the USA. This is a clear acti= on by those countries and senior scientists in response to the situation wi= thin their power, far from silence. International participation in the =E2= =80=9CStand Up for Science=E2=80=9D movement in strong support of our Ameri= can based colleagues is another example of such empathy. I, myself, left th= e USA 25 years ago as there was little hope already at that time in obtaini= ng funding in the areas of research that interested me. =C2=A0</u= >=C2=A0Mention has also been made of using better avenue= s for action and national related discussions. There are no doubt numerous = national societies associated with various disciplines of list members wher= e more directed discussions would seem more appropriate. </sp= an>=C2=A0So, in summary, the calls to =E2=80=9CMove On=E2=80=9D= are not to disrespect the importance of the issue raised to those involved= , but to highlight that this is probably not the audience for =E2=80=9Cloca= l=E2=80=9D political discussions, unless the intention is to alienate those= from outside. </u= >=C2=A0And with that, I will= end my 2-cents worth.<span= >=C2=A0-Brian<= u>--Brian FG Katz, Research Director, CNRS</= p>Groupe Lutheries - Acoustique =E2=80=93 MusiqueSorbonne Universit=C3=A9, C= NRS, UMR 7190, Institut Jean Le Rond =E2=88=82'Alembert <a href=3D"http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/hom= e/katz" target=3D"_blank">http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz</a>= =C2=A0</div></div></div></blockquote></di= v> --000000000000d5dd72063278db3a--

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