Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Silence from leaders in auditory science From: "Goodman, Dan" <d.goodman@xxxxxxxx> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:32:53 +0000--_000_LO2P265MB5712D524BFAE0E351446B5D7CAA42LO2P265MB5712GBRP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Science is and always will be political for the simple reason that science = is the pursuit of truth, and truth is dangerous to those who seek unrestrai= ned power. I can understand the desire not to have to engage with politics = and just get on with your work, but that won't stop them from coming for yo= u. Doug, the people being targeted are not ideological and they didn't bring t= his on themselves. They are people stating basic facts about biology, and t= he climate. They are people who think that we should care about the health = of women and people of all skin colours. Saying that these things are "ideo= logical" is actually ideological, and profoundly antithetical to facts and = reason. Science will suffer lasting damage from this, but it will not be the fault = of scientists. Dan Goodman This message was written on my phone, apologies for brevity. ________________________________ From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx>= on behalf of Douglas Scott <jdmusictuition@xxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2025 4:31:55 am To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Silence from leaders in auditory science I agree. While I understand that these things affect people's careers and i= ncome streams, the fundamental principle that politics and science don't mi= x should remain. The problem is exactly this: If you are tying your researc= h to an ideology and viciously attack anyone of an opposing ideology for fa= iling to say and do the right things it's essentially warfare by other mean= s. You might win a battle here and there, but everyone (and science in general= ) loses in the end when things devolve to this level. Doug On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 at 00:24, J. Scott Merritt <alsauser@xxxxxxxx<mai= lto:alsauser@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: I am saddened to see the Auditory List devolving into a political battlegro= und. If additional political "discourse" is needed, there is certainly no = shortage of other places on the web where it can be found. From my perspective, the -central- problem with US politics is the increasi= ng polarization of the electorate. Gone are the moderate statesmen/women t= hat seek a fair compromise acceptable to most. I put the blame for this si= tuation firmly at the feet of modern media - where all of the incentives ar= e singularly aligned with increased "engagement" of their viewers. Given that view point, I disagree with the premise that each side should pu= t as much effort as possible into organizing their resistance and further a= rguing their points. Instead, I believe we need more people to listen care= fully, with patience and empathy, to the grievances of all sides in hopes o= f finding a middle ground that works for all. I would venture to say that the majority of the US electorate would agree t= hat the massive debt that US has run up is a significant problem, and would= further agree that reduced scientific research funding is an appropriate (= albeit small) step to address that problem. As such, it would be hard to a= rgue that reduced scientific research funding, by itself, is an assault on = American democracy. It can certainly be argued that the methods apparently being used to reduce= funding are crude and not well prioritized, with an emphasis on haste rath= er than wisdom. Unfortunately, I fear that this will remain the case while= the electorate is so heavily polarized and we careen viciously to the left= or right after each election. So ... my suggestions is NOT to "put as much effort as possible into organi= sing resistance to this coup" ... but rather to engage -individually- with = those of differing viewpoints, with patience and empathy, in hopes of reach= ing a better shared vision and understanding. On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 08:25:25 +0000 Petter Kallioinen <000001c5645d28b7-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx<mailto:00= 0001c5645d28b7-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: > I am writing from Stockholm following what I take to be the fall of Ameri= can democracy. My advice is to not the resist the urgency of this situation= and not hope for the best. What I would suggest is for everyone to minimiz= e their ordinary work on a stable level and put as much effort as possible = into organising resistance to this coup. Everyone! --_000_LO2P265MB5712D524BFAE0E351446B5D7CAA42LO2P265MB5712GBRP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > </head> <body> <div dir=3D"auto">Science is and always will be political for the simple re= ason that science is the pursuit of truth, and truth is dangerous to those = who seek unrestrained power. I can understand the desire not to have to eng= age with politics and just get on with your work, but that won't stop them from coming for you.</div> <div dir=3D"auto"><br> </div> <div dir=3D"auto">Doug, the people being targeted are not ideological and t= hey didn't bring this on themselves. They are people stating basic facts ab= out biology, and the climate. They are people who think that we should care= about the health of women and people of all skin colours. Saying that these things are "ideological" = is actually ideological, and profoundly antithetical to facts and reason.&n= bsp;</div> <div dir=3D"auto"><br> </div> <div dir=3D"auto">Science will suffer lasting damage from this, but it will= not be the fault of scientists. </div> <div dir=3D"auto"><br> </div> <div dir=3D"auto">Dan Goodman</div> <div id=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-body-separator-line" dir=3D"auto"><br> </div> <div id=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir=3D"auto">This message was writt= en on my phone, apologies for brevity.</div> <div dir=3D"auto" id=3D"mail-editor-reference-message-container"><br> <hr style=3D"display: inline-block; width: 98%;"> <div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" dir=3D"auto"><b>From:<= /b> AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx= LL.CA> on behalf of Douglas Scott <jdmusictuition@xxxxxxxx><br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 24, 2025 4:31:55 am<br> <b>To:</b> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx><b= r> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [AUDITORY] Silence from leaders in auditory scienc= e<br> </div> <br> <div dir=3D"auto">I agree. While I understand that these things affect peop= le's careers and income streams, the fundamental principle that politics an= d science don't mix should remain. The problem is exactly this: If you are = tying your research to an ideology and viciously attack anyone of an opposing ideology for failing to sa= y and do the right things it's essentially warfare by other means.<br> <br> You might win a battle here and there, but everyone (and science in ge= neral) loses in the end when things devolve to this level.<br> <br> Doug</div> <br> <div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 at 00:24, J. Sco= tt Merritt <<a href=3D"mailto:alsauser@xxxxxxxx">alsauser@xxxxxxxx= ft.com</a>> wrote:</div> <blockquote style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-l= eft: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);"> <div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_quote">I am saddened to see the Auditory L= ist devolving into a political battleground. If additional political = "discourse" is needed, there is certainly no shortage of other pl= aces on the web where it can be found.<br> <br> From my perspective, the -central- problem with US politics is the increasi= ng polarization of the electorate. Gone are the moderate statesmen/wo= men that seek a fair compromise acceptable to most. I put the blame f= or this situation firmly at the feet of modern media - where all of the incentives are singularly aligned with increased = "engagement" of their viewers.<br> <br> Given that view point, I disagree with the premise that each side should pu= t as much effort as possible into organizing their resistance and further a= rguing their points. Instead, I believe we need more people to listen= carefully, with patience and empathy, to the grievances of all sides in hopes of finding a middle ground that wo= rks for all.<br> <br> I would venture to say that the majority of the US electorate would agree t= hat the massive debt that US has run up is a significant problem, and would= further agree that reduced scientific research funding is an appropriate (= albeit small) step to address that problem. As such, it would be hard to argue that reduced scientific = research funding, by itself, is an assault on American democracy.<br> <br> It can certainly be argued that the methods apparently being used to reduce= funding are crude and not well prioritized, with an emphasis on haste rath= er than wisdom. Unfortunately, I fear that this will remain the case = while the electorate is so heavily polarized and we careen viciously to the left or right after each election.<br> <br> So ... my suggestions is NOT to "put as much effort as possible into o= rganising resistance to this coup" ... but rather to engage -individua= lly- with those of differing viewpoints, with patience and empathy, in hope= s of reaching a better shared vision and understanding.<br> <br> <br> On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 08:25:25 +0000<br> Petter Kallioinen <<a href=3D"mailto:000001c5645d28b7-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx= S.MCGILL.CA" target=3D"_blank">000001c5645d28b7-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx= CA</a>> wrote:<br> <br> > I am writing from Stockholm following what I take to be the fall of Am= erican democracy. My advice is to not the resist the urgency of this situat= ion and not hope for the best. What I would suggest is for everyone to mini= mize their ordinary work on a stable level and put as much effort as possible into organising resistance to thi= s coup. Everyone!</div> </blockquote> <br> </div> </body> </html> --_000_LO2P265MB5712D524BFAE0E351446B5D7CAA42LO2P265MB5712GBRP_--