Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Silence from leaders in auditory science From: Alain de Cheveigne <alain.de.cheveigne@xxxxxxxx> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:19:48 +0100Scott,=20 I followed your advice, and read what you had to say with empathy and an = open mind. Sadly, it does not make good sense. You complain that the = list 'devolves into a political battleground,' but then wade in = wholeheartedly. You defend a pristine channel of scientific debate, but = defend the notion of science itself being sacrificed to fix the debt.=20 As an accomplished engineer, you should feel that something is wrong. = For one thing, the cost of science is a minor factor in the debt. We = usually attend to major factors before minor. For another, science (like = other elements of society funded collectively) creates the platform on = which you and others create wealth. It seems strange that the richest = country on the planet suddenly thinks that such basics are not worth = paying for. A reluctance to pay tax is the major factor in the debt. An apt metaphor is an apple tree. All we care for is the apples, but we = would not get rid of leaves, branches, roots, soil and water because = they appear wasteful. A tree might benefit from pruning to remove dead = wood and superfluous branches, but you do not go at it with a chainsaw. What is happening to the US reminds me of the zombie ants who suddenly = figure that it is a good idea to latch on to a leaf and die. In the ant, = this behavior results from the hijacking of neural circuits that process = information and control action. Those circuits normally ensure = homeostasis, keeping the ant (and its colony and species) alive, much = like the controls of a plane keep it in the air. Hijacking those = controls might allow the hijacker to influence the trajectory to their = benefit, at the expense of the plane and its pilot. =20 You single out 'polarization' of the (US) electorate and 'modern media' = as causes. Why is it that I, who am not part of that electorate and = partake sparingly of social or even written media, am so apprehensive of = the current trajectory? To answer the original question about the 'silence of senior leaders', = those 'leaders' are confused and scared. Confused because their usual = levers of action no longer work and they do they fully understand why = and how to fix them, and scared because of recent examples of = retribution and bullying, in scientific spheres or elsewhere. This is why politics might seep into the scientific debate from time to = time. Regrettable? Yes. Alain > On 22 Mar 2025, at 17:05, J. Scott Merritt <alsauser@xxxxxxxx> = wrote: >=20 > I am saddened to see the Auditory List devolving into a political = battleground. If additional political "discourse" is needed, there is = certainly no shortage of other places on the web where it can be found. >=20 > =46rom my perspective, the -central- problem with US politics is the = increasing polarization of the electorate. Gone are the moderate = statesmen/women that seek a fair compromise acceptable to most. I put = the blame for this situation firmly at the feet of modern media - where = all of the incentives are singularly aligned with increased "engagement" = of their viewers. >=20 > Given that view point, I disagree with the premise that each side = should put as much effort as possible into organizing their resistance = and further arguing their points. Instead, I believe we need more = people to listen carefully, with patience and empathy, to the grievances = of all sides in hopes of finding a middle ground that works for all. >=20 > I would venture to say that the majority of the US electorate would = agree that the massive debt that US has run up is a significant problem, = and would further agree that reduced scientific research funding is an = appropriate (albeit small) step to address that problem. As such, it = would be hard to argue that reduced scientific research funding, by = itself, is an assault on American democracy. >=20 > It can certainly be argued that the methods apparently being used to = reduce funding are crude and not well prioritized, with an emphasis on = haste rather than wisdom. Unfortunately, I fear that this will remain = the case while the electorate is so heavily polarized and we careen = viciously to the left or right after each election. >=20 > So ... my suggestions is NOT to "put as much effort as possible into = organising resistance to this coup" ... but rather to engage = -individually- with those of differing viewpoints, with patience and = empathy, in hopes of reaching a better shared vision and understanding. >=20 >=20 > On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 08:25:25 +0000 > Petter Kallioinen <000001c5645d28b7-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx> = wrote: >=20 >> I am writing from Stockholm following what I take to be the fall of = American democracy. My advice is to not the resist the urgency of this = situation and not hope for the best. What I would suggest is for = everyone to minimize their ordinary work on a stable level and put as = much effort as possible into organising resistance to this coup. = Everyone!