Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Silence from leaders in auditory science From: Jan Schnupp <000000e042a1ec30-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 11:20:44 +0800--000000000000f3e29b0630a98379 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear List, I share Gunter's perspective, just wanted to add that young scientists might want to add Hong Kong to the list of places they should consider. It's about as far away from Trump as possible, and I can assure you from personal experience that both the working environment and the quality of life are excellent, with consistently high levels of funding for science and higher education, as well as plenty of academic freedom and civil liberties. (With the impending US TikTok ban, the HK internet will soon be among the least censored in the world, to give just one example). Singapore and Australia are also worth looking into. You can add to Gunter's succinct and as far as I can tell entirely accurate summary of the new administration's war on US institutions the fact that Trump is fatally undermining America's economic and technological leadership position. For example, America's trade deficits continued to increase greatly and China's progress in key technologies clearly accelerated since Trump kicked off his counterproductive trade wars in 2020, but facts have never mattered to Trump, so the fact that his policies demonstrably fail to achieve their aims does not diminish his zeal or that of his cult members. In the long run this will mean that the best resourced and technologically most advanced research institutes will increasingly not be in the US. To some extent this is already underway. I just recently visited a new scientific infrastructure building in Shenzhen that has the capacity to house 2000 primates and has 3 FMRI scanners, 1 PET scanner and 1 cyclotron in the basement. In pretty much all respects and in absolute and relative terms the outlook for the US looks quite negative to me - and all of this, I should add, is entirely due to unforced errors created within the US political establishment. I am also very pessimistic about what carefully crafted and noble statements by distinguished members of our auditory neuroscience community can achieve. Donald and Elon certainly aren't going to pay any attention. And, as I put it to Perry in an off-list email, if the American public didn't listen to Taylor Swift in November, why would they listen to a few crusty hearing science professors now? If you are serious about wanting to bring about change in US politics, then letters by scientists, even if published in the NYT, are such a tiny drop in the bucket as to be a waste of time. You would need to get organised on a much bigger scale and reach well beyond the scientific community, across all the parts of US society that is upset about what is happening, and organise a US-wide general strike and mass rallies. Action on such a scale would of course require a huge amount of organisation and leadership. Chuck Schumer's recent supine and invertebrate approach to federal budget negotiations suggests that little help can be expected from the Dems. Still, either you do something that even Trump and the MAGA ideologs cannot ignore, or don't bother, give up on US politics and look for ways to minimize its impact on your own personal development. These are dark times, but there are still opportunities for those who are ready to look for them. Kind regards, Jan --------------------------------------- Prof Jan Schnupp Gerald Choa Neuroscience Institute The Chinese University of Hong Kong Sha Tin Hong Kong https://auditoryneuroscience.com http://jan.schnupp.net On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 at 17:58, Gunter Kreutz <gunter.kreutz@xxxxxxxx> wrote= : > Dear list, > > the brutal reality is that the US administration has declared war on its > democratic institutions, the legal system, the media, the checks and > balances system, social security, science and humanities, and above all i= t > (and that is not Trump alone, but equally the "masterminds" of the herita= ge > foundation) declared war on the values shared by the so-called free world= . > - Is this exaggerated? > > Who could blame young US scientists to consider their future in Canada, > Britain, the Far East, or in the EU? > > Sorry for being off-topic. I wholeheartedly support and applaud to > scientists standing up and rally, wherever there is need to do so. But it > seems to happen in a strange atmosphere as it becomes evident that the > protection of democratic rights is crumbling. And the country where this = is > happening is not a small republic on the Balkan. > > Sorry also for having no suggestions for how to do better service to youn= g > researchers that getting rid of the current US admin ASAP. The whole worl= d > will hold its breath what the next US administration will look like and > whether they will be able to restore the - in my view - inevitable brain > drain that will hurt the US hearing sciences in the meantime, I am afraid= . > > Slava Ukraine > > Gunter > > > > > > > > > > > > Am Di., 18. M=C3=A4rz 2025 um 05:29 Uhr schrieb Sarah Creel < > 000001009817b89f-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx>: > >> Hi Perry, >> >> I'm so sorry that this is such a stressful time for all of us. It's hard >> enough starting out in science without the entire edifice crumbling arou= nd >> one's ears. >> >> I think that what's going on right now is that there is a sense of >> science solidarity: scientists are fighting for scientists across the >> board, not just in auditory science. I've been to and seen lots of peopl= e >> at Stand Up for Science rallies across the country. People are pelting >> their elected representatives with demands not to silence science. I've >> also seen (and responded to) calls to write supportive notes to program >> officers, SROs, etc. at funding agencies who are currently under huge >> amounts of stress and anxiety. There is HUGE concern amongst all these >> groups about what this is going to do to the next generation of scientis= ts. >> >> One big way that more senior folks can help more junior folks is to do >> our best to make sure funding opportunities stay in place. Without that, >> the support web for PhDs is really not there. So I think a lot of people >> are focusing their energies on advocating for maintaining NIH and NSF. >> >> I would love to see suggestions on Auditory list or other places for >> additional ways to advocate for junior scientists and for science genera= lly. >> >> Hang in there and please know that we want you here. >> Sarah >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 16, 2025 at 9:23=E2=80=AFPM T. T. Perry <trevortperry@xxxxxxxx= com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Auditory List, >>> >>> I'm a hearing scientist in America where science and s cientists are >>> under extremely heavy attack, Orban style. Yet I've seen almost no >>> statements from senior leaders in our field defending science and early >>> career scientists. Perhaps I'm in a bubble and just haven't witnessed t= hese >>> statements myself. >>> >>> Where are the leaders of our field and why are they so quiet? Does >>> auditory science have a future in America? Are "mid" and "late stage" >>> career people just looking to comply and save themselves? >>> >>> What have you heard lately? >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Perry >>> they/them >>> >> --000000000000f3e29b0630a98379 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Dear List,</div><div><br></div><div>I share Gunter= 9;s perspective, just wanted to add that young scientists might want to add= Hong Kong to the list of places they should consider. It's about as fa= r away from Trump as possible, and I can assure you from personal experienc= e that both the working environment and the quality of life are excellent, = with consistently high levels of funding for science and higher education, = as well as plenty of academic freedom and civil liberties. (With the impend= ing US TikTok ban, the HK internet will soon be among the least censored in= the=C2=A0world, to give just one example). Singapore and Australia are als= o worth looking into.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>You can add to Gunter&= #39;s succinct and as far as I can=C2=A0tell entirely accurate summary of t= he new administration's war on US institutions the fact that Trump is f= atally undermining America's economic and technological leadership posi= tion. For example, America's trade deficits continued to increase great= ly and China's progress in key technologies clearly accelerated since T= rump kicked off his counterproductive trade wars in 2020, but facts have ne= ver mattered to Trump, so the fact that his policies demonstrably fail to a= chieve their aims does not diminish his zeal or that of his cult members. I= n the long run this will mean that the best resourced and technologically m= ost advanced research institutes will increasingly not be in the US. To som= e extent this is already underway. I just recently visited a new scientific= infrastructure building in Shenzhen that has the capacity to house 2000 pr= imates and has 3 FMRI scanners, 1 PET scanner and 1 cyclotron in the baseme= nt. In pretty much all respects and in absolute and relative terms=C2=A0 th= e outlook for the US looks quite negative to me - and all of this, I should= add, is entirely due to unforced errors created within the US political es= tablishment.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I am also very pessimistic abou= t what carefully crafted and noble statements by distinguished members of o= ur auditory neuroscience community can achieve. Donald and Elon certainly a= ren't going to pay any attention. And, as I put it to Perry in an off-l= ist email, if the American public didn't listen to Taylor Swift in Nove= mber, why would they listen to a few crusty hearing science professors now?= If you are serious about wanting to bring about change in US politics, the= n letters by scientists, even if published in the NYT, are such a tiny drop= in the bucket as to be a waste of time. You would need to get organised on= a much bigger scale and reach well beyond the scientific community, across= all the parts of US society that is upset about what is happening, and org= anise a US-wide general strike and mass rallies. Action on such a scale wou= ld of course require a huge amount of organisation and leadership. Chuck Sc= humer's recent supine and invertebrate approach to federal budget negot= iations suggests that little help can be expected from the Dems. Still, eit= her you do something that even Trump and the MAGA ideologs cannot ignore, o= r don't bother, give up on US politics and look for=C2=A0ways to minimi= ze its=C2=A0impact on your=C2=A0own personal development. These are dark ti= mes, but there are still opportunities for those who are ready to look for = them.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards,</div><div><br></div><div= >Jan</div><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D= "gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d= ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px= "><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">-------------------------------= --------</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Prof Jan Schnupp</div><div st= yle=3D"font-size:12.8px">Gerald Choa Neuroscience Institute</div><div style= =3D"font-size:12.8px">The Chinese University of Hong Kong</div><div style= =3D"font-size:12.8px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Sha Tin</span></div>= <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Hong Kong<= /span><br></div><div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><a href=3D"h= ttps://auditoryneuroscience.com" target=3D"_blank">https://auditoryneurosci= ence.com</a></div><div><a href=3D"http://jan.schnupp.net" target=3D"_blank"= >http://jan.schnupp.net<br></a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></= div></div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><d= iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 at 17:58, Gunter Kr= eutz <<a href=3D"mailto:gunter.kreutz@xxxxxxxx">gunter.kreutz@xxxxxxxx= </a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:= 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">= <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Dear list,</div><div><br></div><div>the brutal realit= y is that the US administration has declared war on its democratic institut= ions, the legal system, the media, the checks and balances system, social s= ecurity, science and humanities, and above all it (and that is not Trump al= one, but equally the "masterminds" of the heritage foundation) de= clared war on the values shared by the so-called free world. - Is this exag= gerated?</div><div><br></div><div>Who could blame young US scientists to co= nsider their future in Canada, Britain, the Far East, or in the EU? <br></d= iv><div><br></div><div>Sorry for being off-topic. I wholeheartedly support = and applaud to scientists standing up and rally, wherever there is need to = do so. But it seems to happen in a strange atmosphere as it becomes evident= that the protection of democratic rights is crumbling. And the country whe= re this is happening is not a small republic on the Balkan.</div><div><br><= /div><div>Sorry also for having no suggestions for how to do better service= to young researchers that getting rid of the current US admin ASAP. The wh= ole world will hold its breath what the next US administration will look li= ke and whether they will be able to restore the - in my view - inevitable b= rain drain that will hurt the US hearing sciences in the meantime, I am afr= aid.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Slava Ukraine</div><div><br></div><div>= Gunter</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><di= v><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><di= v><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"= gmail_attr">Am Di., 18. M=C3=A4rz 2025 um 05:29=C2=A0Uhr schrieb Sarah Cree= l <<a href=3D"mailto:000001009817b89f-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx" tar= get=3D"_blank">000001009817b89f-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx</a>>:<br><= /div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo= rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><di= v>Hi Perry,</div><div><br></div><div>I'm so sorry that this is such a s= tressful time for all of us. It's hard enough starting out in science w= ithout the entire edifice crumbling around one's ears.</div><div><br></= div><div>I think that what's going on right now is that there is a sens= e of science solidarity: scientists are fighting for scientists across the = board, not just in auditory science. I've been to and seen lots of peop= le at Stand Up for Science rallies across the country. People are pelting t= heir elected representatives with demands not to silence science. I've = also seen (and responded to) calls to write supportive notes to program off= icers, SROs, etc. at funding agencies who are currently under huge amounts = of stress and anxiety. There is HUGE concern amongst all these groups about= what this is going to do to the next generation of scientists.</div><div><= br></div><div></div><div>One big way that more senior folks can help more j= unior folks is to do our best to make sure funding opportunities stay in pl= ace. Without that, the support web for PhDs is really not there. So I think= a lot of people are focusing their energies on advocating for maintaining = NIH and NSF.</div><div><br></div><div>I would love to see suggestions on Au= ditory list or other places for additional ways to advocate for junior scie= ntists and for science generally.</div><div><br></div><div>Hang in there an= d please know that we want you here.</div><div>Sarah</div><div><br></div><d= iv><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu= ote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 16, 2025 at 9:23=E2= =80=AFPM T. T. Perry <<a href=3D"mailto:trevortperry@xxxxxxxx" target= =3D"_blank">trevortperry@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote clas= s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid r= gb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Auditory List,<div d= ir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I'm a hearing scientist in Amer= ica where science and s cientists are under extremely heavy attack, Orban s= tyle. Yet I've seen almost no statements from senior leaders in our fie= ld defending science and early career scientists. Perhaps I'm in a bubb= le and just haven't witnessed these statements myself.</div><div dir=3D= "auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Where are the leaders of our field and w= hy are they so quiet? Does auditory science have a future in America? Are &= quot;mid" and "late stage" career people just looking to com= ply and save themselves?=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D= "auto">What have you heard lately?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di= r=3D"auto">Sincerely,=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">Perry</div><div dir=3D"a= uto">they/them</div></div> </blockquote></div> </blockquote></div> </blockquote></div> --000000000000f3e29b0630a98379--