Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] ITD KEMAR/HATS data as a function of frequency and azimuth From: Sathish Kumar <sathish.sreeni58@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 16:30:36 +0530--00000000000061d0600611556c82 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000061d05f0611556c81" --00000000000061d05f0611556c81 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Frederico Pereira, I've been referring to the AMT toolbox to calculate ITD using the "ITD estimator" function. From what I understand, this function requires HRTF datasets for ITD calculation. Is it possible to utilize the same function to compute ITD for audio signals directly, without relying on HRTF data? Regards, Sathish Kumar. On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 10:41=E2=80=AFAM Frederico Pereira < pereira.frederico@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > I have also been quite interested in pin point the best ITD > calculation method (and frequency cut off) that best relates to perceptu= al > data. > As for matlab code I can recommend the AMToolbox (ITD estimator). It > supports various estimation methods and you can adjust LP cutoff frequenc= y > to get ITDs considering various bandwidths. You can load any SOFA format > HRTF dataset. > https://www.amtoolbox.org > > Best, > - Frederico Pereira > > > On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 5:04=E2=80=AFAM Pierre Divenyi < > pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> =EF=BB=BFGreetings all, >> >> Interesting Brian, but I would much like to know what Jens Blauert think= s >> of all this. >> >> Best, >> Pierre >> >> Pardon my typos. It's Apple's fault. >> >> On Jan 24, 2024, at 02:06, Brian FG Katz < >> brian.katz@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> =EF=BB=BF >> >> Dear Dr. Rhebergen, list, >> >> >> >> There has been some discussion over the years about the frequency >> dependence of ITD. While of course it is possible to calculate almost >> anything, the physicality of such a notion remains tenuous in my opinion= , >> as air is not particularly a dispersive medium (i.e. low frequencies are >> not travelling around the head faster that higher frequencies). I theref= ore >> offer several points for thought on the question=E2=80=A6 >> >> >> >> In general, when considering ITD data, one must be aware of the >> calculation method, as different methods can produce significantly >> different results. See for example our study a decade ago now on the >> subject: >> >> >> >> B. F. G. Katz and M. Noisternig, =E2=80=9CA comparative study of interau= ral time >> delay estimation methods,=E2=80=9D *J Acoust Soc Am*, vol. 135, no. 6, >> pp. 3530=E2=80=933540, 2014, doi:10.1121/1.4875714 >> <https://doi.org/10.1121/1.4875714> >> >> >> >> Following this, there remains the question of which ITD estimation metho= d >> is most coherent with perception. A follow-up study on this point was al= so >> carried out on that point as well: >> >> >> >> A. Andreopoulou and B. F. G. Katz, =E2=80=9CIdentification of perceptual= ly >> relevant methods of inter-aural time difference estimation,=E2=80=9D *J = Acoust >> Soc Am*, vol. 142, no. 2, pp. 588=E2=80=93598, 2017, doi:10.1121/1.49964= 57 >> <https://doi.org/10.1121/1.4996457>. >> >> >> >> The following chapter also provides an overview and some graphical data >> on ITD for the Neumann KU100, including function of distance: >> >> >> >> B. F. G. Katz and R. Nicol, =E2=80=9CBinaural spatial reproduction,=E2= =80=9D in *Sensory* >> *Evaluation of Sound *(N. Zacharov, ed.), pp. 349=E2=80=93388, Boca Rat= on: CRC >> Press, 2019, (url) >> <http://www.crcpress.com/Sensory-Evaluation-of-Sound/Zacharov/p/book/978= 1498751360>. >> ISBN 978-1-4987-5136-0. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> -Brian >> >> -- >> >> Brian FG Katz, Research Director, CNRS >> >> Groupe Lutheries - Acoustique =E2=80=93 Musique >> >> Sorbonne Universit=C3=A9, CNRS, UMR 7190, Institut Jean Le Rond =E2=88= =82'Alembert >> >> http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz >> >> >> >> *De :* AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception < >> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> *De la part de* Rhebergen, K.S. (Koen) >> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* mardi 23 janvier 2024 15:17 >> *=C3=80 :* AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx >> *Objet :* [AUDITORY] ITD KEMAR/HATS data as a function of frequency and >> azimuth >> >> >> >> Dear list, >> >> >> >> I am looking for a lookup table (or matlab code ) with ITD data measured >> with a KEMAR of hats in an anachoric room as a function of frequency >> (~100Hz to 8000Hz) and azimuth (0:5:180) >> >> If someone can send me a copy or matlab code it would be greatly >> appreciated. >> >> >> >> With kind regards >> >> *Koen Rhebergen* >> >> >> >> >> >> [image: image001.png] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dr. K.S. Rhebergen >> >> Klinisch fysicus - audioloog | functiecentrum KNO (AZU) | Kind & >> Communicatie (WKZ) >> >> Universitair Medisch Centrum Utrecht >> >> > > -- > Frederico Pereira > Mobile:+351 937356301 > *Audio and Acoustics, Perception Interaction and Usability* > Email:pereira.frederico@xxxxxxxx > --00000000000061d05f0611556c81 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear=C2=A0Frederico Pere= ira,<div>I've been referring to the AMT toolbox to calculate ITD using = the "ITD estimator" function.=C2=A0</div><div>From what I underst= and, this function requires HRTF datasets for=C2=A0ITD calculation. Is it p= ossible to utilize the same function to compute ITD for audio signals direc= tly, without relying on HRTF data?</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><= div>Sathish Kumar.</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir= =3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 10:41=E2=80=AFAM Fred= erico Pereira <<a href=3D"mailto:pereira.frederico@xxxxxxxx">pereira.fr= ederico@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"= style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p= adding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I have also been quite interested in pin = point the best ITD calculation=C2=A0method (and frequency cut off) =C2=A0th= at best relates to perceptual data.<div>As for=C2=A0matlab code I can recom= mend=C2=A0the AMToolbox (ITD estimator). It supports various estimation met= hods and you can adjust LP cutoff frequency to get ITDs considering various= bandwidths. You can load any SOFA format HRTF dataset.</div><div><a href= =3D"https://www.amtoolbox.org" target=3D"_blank">https://www.amtoolbox.org<= /a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>- Frederico Pereira</div><= div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class= =3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 5:04=E2=80=AFAM Pierre Divenyi <= <a href=3D"mailto:pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx= crma.stanford.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"= style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p= adding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BFGreetings all,= <div><br></div><div>Interesting Brian, but I would much like to know what J= ens Blauert thinks of all this.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Pi= erre<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Pardon my typos. It's Apple's fault.= =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 24, 2024,= at 02:06, Brian FG Katz <<a href=3D"mailto:brian.katz@xxxxxxxx= te.fr" target=3D"_blank">brian.katz@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<b= r><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB= =BF<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear Dr. Rhebergen, list, <u></u><u></u></p>= <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">There= has been some discussion over the years about the frequency dependence of = ITD. While of course it is possible to calculate almost anything, the physi= cality of such a notion remains tenuous in my opinion, as air is not partic= ularly a dispersive medium (i.e. low frequencies are not travelling around = the head faster that higher frequencies). I therefore offer several points = for thought on the question=E2=80=A6 <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma= l"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">In general, when consider= ing ITD data, one must be aware of the calculation method, as different met= hods can produce significantly different results. See for example our study= a decade ago now on the subject:<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><= u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><s= pan style=3D"color:black">B.=C2=A0F.=C2=A0G. Katz and M.=C2=A0Noisternig, = =E2=80=9CA comparative study of interaural time delay estimation methods,= =E2=80=9D=C2=A0<span><i>J Acoust Soc Am</i></span>, vol.=C2=A0135, no.=C2= =A06, pp.=C2=A03530=E2=80=933540, 2014, doi:</span><a href=3D"https://doi.o= rg/10.1121/1.4875714" target=3D"_blank">10.1121/1.4875714</a><u></u><u></u>= </p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">F= ollowing this, there remains the question of which ITD estimation method is= most coherent with perception. A follow-up study on this point was also ca= rried out on that point as well:<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u= ></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><sp= an style=3D"color:black">A.=C2=A0Andreopoulou and B.=C2=A0F.=C2=A0G. Katz, = =E2=80=9CIdentification of perceptually relevant methods of inter-aural tim= e difference estimation,=E2=80=9D=C2=A0<span><i>J Acoust Soc Am</i></span>,= vol.=C2=A0142, no.=C2=A02, pp.=C2=A0588=E2=80=93598, 2017, doi:</span><a h= ref=3D"https://doi.org/10.1121/1.4996457" target=3D"_blank">10.1121/1.49964= 57</a><span style=3D"color:black">.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso= Normal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The following chapte= r also provides an overview and some graphical data on ITD for the Neumann = KU100, including function of distance:<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm= al"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36p= t"><span style=3D"color:black">B.=C2=A0F.=C2=A0G. Katz and R.=C2=A0Nicol, = =E2=80=9CBinaural spatial reproduction,=E2=80=9D in=C2=A0<span><i>Sensory</= i></span>=C2=A0<span><i>Evaluation of Sound=C2=A0</i></span>(N.=C2=A0Zachar= ov, ed.), pp.=C2=A0349=E2=80=93388, Boca Raton: CRC Press, 2019,=C2=A0</spa= n><a href=3D"http://www.crcpress.com/Sensory-Evaluation-of-Sound/Zacharov/p= /book/9781498751360" target=3D"_blank">(url)</a><span style=3D"color:black"= >. ISBN 978-1-4987-5136-0.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><= u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p><p c= lass=3D"MsoNormal">-Brian<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa= n style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">--</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p= class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Brian FG Katz, Re= search Director, CNRS</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN= ormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Grou= pe Lutheries - Acoustique =E2=80=93 Musique</span><span lang=3D"FR"><u></u>= <u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-si= ze:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sorbonne Universit=C3=A9, CNRS, UMR 7190, Ins= titut Jean Le Rond =E2=88=82'Alembert </span><span lang=3D"FR"><u></u><= u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:rg= b(31,73,125)"><a href=3D"http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz" target=3D"= _blank"><span style=3D"color:blue">http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz</= span></a></span><span lang=3D"FR"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class= =3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div s= tyle=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:= rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang= =3D"FR">De=C2=A0:</span></b><span lang=3D"FR"> AUDITORY - Research in Audit= ory Perception <<a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_b= lank">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a>> <b>De la part de</b> Rhebergen, K.S.= (Koen)<br><b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> mardi 23 janvier 2024 15:17<br><b>=C3= =80=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank= ">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a><br><b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> [AUDITORY] ITD KEMAR/= HATS data as a function of frequency and azimuth<u></u><u></u></span></p></= div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNor= mal"><span lang=3D"NL">Dear list,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo= rmal"><span lang=3D"NL"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma= l" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.= 5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black;background-colo= r:white">I am looking for a lookup table (or matlab code ) with ITD data me= asured with a KEMAR of hats in an anachoric room as a function of frequency= (~100Hz to 8000Hz) and azimuth (0:5:180)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style= =3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:blac= k"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty= le=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:bl= ack">If someone can send me a copy or matlab code it would be greatly appre= ciated.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso= Normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso= Normal"><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-se= rif;color:black">With kind regards<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN= ormal"><b><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-= serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Koen Rhebergen<u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p c= lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&= quot;Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>= <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-family:"Segoe U= I",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><= span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color= :black"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"161" height=3D"47" style=3D"width: 1.675= in; height: 0.4916in;" id=3D"m_6604374263823742019m_6476973870028368713Afbe= elding_x0020_1" alt=3D"image001.png" src=3D"cid:ii_18d509c75fd4cff311"></sp= an><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;c= olor:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"N= L" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;col= or:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang= =3D"NL" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-seri= f;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span = lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-= serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s= pan lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",san= s-serif;color:black">Dr. K.S. Rhebergen<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D= "MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-si= ze:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black">Klinisch fy= sicus - audioloog | functiecentrum KNO (AZU) | Kind & Communicatie (WKZ= )<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justif= y"><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">Universitair Medisch Centrum Utrecht <u></u><u></= u></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div>= <br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div><span class=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- = </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Fred= erico Pereira<br>Mobile:+351 937356301<div><i>Audio and Acoustics, Percepti= on Interaction and Usability</i><br><div><div><a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Aper= eira.frederico@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">Email:pereira.frederico@xxxxxxxx= om</a></div></div></div></div></div> </blockquote></div></div> --00000000000061d05f0611556c81-- --00000000000061d0600611556c82 Content-Type: image/png; 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