Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Setting Priorities in Hearing Research: last chance to have your say From: Frederick Gallun <fgallun@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2024 18:00:22 -0800--0000000000005dd4d80629456fec Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Alain, Thank you so much for your thoughtful comments. I have a few responses, but I want to emphasize that these are my own perspective and I'm not speaking for the group. First of all, I want to emphasize that this current phase, the ranking, is a follow-up to the previous phase, which was the definition of the priorities. The whole process is described on the web page https://acoustics.ac.uk/international-priorities-in-hearing-survey/, but the short version is that we first sent out a wide request for input and got detailed descriptions of multiple priority areas from over 60 content experts, resulting in over 15,000 words! We then went through using thematic analysis, and derived 36 distinct priorities. These range from more precise and technical, to more abstract, wide-ranging or conceptual. We captured each with a brief "slogan", but each of these has a full detailed description associated with it. To see these we encourage you to follow the links in the actual survey, two of which I have copied here. To download the Word document with the full summaries, use this link: https://aruspsych.eu.qualtrics.com/CP/File.php?F=3DF_a44G01kyveA99Ou To view the YouTube videos that we recorded with each of the summaries, use this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DA368MBAcF4Q Given that choices need to get made, not just by funders, but by societies, research centers, universities, and even individual laboratories, I think it is very important that we as a field have ongoing conversations about what the priority areas are. I personally learned a huge amount by reading the careful and thoughtful responses that came out of the first priority identification phase. We very much want the ranking phase to be an educational phase as well, by sharing the distillation of those 15,000 words that the auditory community wrote for us. We look forward to publishing a carefully crafted articulation of what our experts told us they think is important for the field to focus on in the future. In theory, we could have stopped there, but it seems useful to know what the broader community thinks about these priority areas. The ranking is indeed a "one-dimensional" response mode, but it is the best way we know of to get input from a large and diverse group of scholars, clinicians, students, and interested stakeholders. We sincerely hope you will take this opportunity to learn what the expert group identified as the top 36 priority areas, and to lend your voice in saying which of these speak to you most clearly. Again, the survey (and the descriptions of the 36 priority areas) can be found here: https://tinyurl.com/hearingranking We strongly recommend using a computer, as the click and drag interface is a bit difficult to get the hang of on a phone or tablet. Thanks again for your thoughtful commentary! Erick --------------------------------------------- Frederick (Erick) Gallun, PhD, FASA, FASHA | he/him/his Professor, Oregon Hearing Research Center, Oregon Health & Science University "Diversity is like being invited to a party, Inclusion is being asked to dance, and Belonging is dancing like no one=E2=80=99s watching" - Gregory L= ewis On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 4:13=E2=80=AFAM Alain de Cheveigne < alain.de.cheveigne@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > Hi Erick, all, > > Thanks for this effort! It's great to have a wide picture of what people > in the field find of interest. > > However there's one point that troubles me: ranking. I fear that it might > have unintended effects. I'll try to explain why. > > The projects that we could be working on are many, and measures of how > interesting/useful they are form a high dimensional space. Deciding to fu= nd > proposal A rather than proposal B involves projecting these measures on a > single axis, i.e. choosing a particular weight for each measure. This is > hard and requires expertise, which funding panels often lack. > > It is tempting to replace this messy business by a simple, one-dimensiona= l > topic-dependent measure, or at least use it for triage, or to justify a > decision. The measure is 'validated' (via this survey) so a decision base= d > on it is hard to question. Conversely, a panel might think twice before > giving money to, say, synaptopathy, or genetics, as the decision might be > challenged based on their rank. Busy, pragmatic panel members might not > want to take chances. As a side effect, researchers may feel pressure to > drop low-priority research (regardless of its promise) or 'talk up' aspec= ts > to make it look high-priority. None of this seems good to me. > > Looking at the current ranking, the oecumenical 'auditory perception' > comes top, which is no surprise given that it's what most of us are worki= ng > on. 'Better outcomes', 'better hearing aids', 'better speech > comprehension', etc. are hard to disagree with, and their high rank is th= us > not super informative. Same for the low ranks of e.g. 'operational issues= ' > or 'tradition or orthodoxy' (whatever that means). Low ranks of 'genetic= s' > and 'synaptopathy' are more surprising, thus informative if they can be > trusted. However that requires ruling out bias or random effects due to t= he > relatively small number of respondants. Not easy... > > My gut feeling is good research can be done on any of these topics (and > poor research too). Synaptopathy is not my field, nor apparently a priori= ty > for many, but I see how it feeds into many other aspects of hearing. A > high-quality project might lead to a breakthrough with high impact on, > say, 'better outcomes', possibly higher than a project that more tamely > targets 'better outcomes'. > > So, this initiative is great to give us a panorama of all the good things > people see as interesting. Personally, I would downplay its role as a too= l > to guide funding decisions. > > Alain > > > > > > > > > On 14 Dec 2024, at 00:40, Frederick Gallun <fgallun@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Auditory Community Members, > > We are in the final month of asking what YOU want to see prioritized i= n > Auditory Research! > > Have you told us what you think is most important to put our resources > to for the field to advance in the coming years? > > You may remember that we collected your feedback on what you think > research priorities should be and what current obstacles to advancement a= re > and based on this developed 36 priority areas. If you want to know how we > came up with the top 36 priority areas as well as how folks have ranked > them so far (and ask yourself if you agree??), check out our website: > https://acoustics.ac.uk/international-priorities-in-hearing-survey/. > > > > If you want to contribute to this priority ranking exercise and make > sure that your voice is heard, please click here to go straight to the > survey: https://tinyurl.com/hearingranking We strongly recommend using a > computer, as the click and drag interface is a bit difficult to get the > hang of on a phone or tablet. > > Why is it so important for YOU to fill out the survey? > > 1. We aim to make these priorities accessible to everyone by > publishing the results in a peer-reviewed open-access format, which we fe= el > would benefit many in the field when talking with funders / policy makers= / > commissioners. > > 2. In order to represent the international hearing research > community best we need the priority list to be as representative of the > international auditory research landscape as possible and would like to > encourage researchers from all continents to take part. > > 3. The voting ends on December 31st, 2024! > > Thank you, and please don=E2=80=99t hesitate to contact us if you have= any > questions or have any difficulties with the survey. > > > > Erick Gallun (gallunf@xxxxxxxx) > > on behalf of: > > > > Rob MacKinnon (robert.mackinnon@xxxxxxxx) > > Antje Heinrich (antje.heinrich@xxxxxxxx) > > Chris Sumner (christian.sumner@xxxxxxxx) > > > > Members of the UKAN Hearing SIG Committee > > https://acoustics.ac.uk/sigs/hearing-acoustics/ > > > > --0000000000005dd4d80629456fec Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Dear Alain,</div><div><br></div><div= >Thank you so much for your thoughtful comments. I have a few responses, bu= t I want to emphasize that these are my own perspective and I'm not spe= aking for the group.</div><div><br></div><div>First of all, I want to empha= size that this current phase, the ranking, is a follow-up to the previous p= hase, which was the definition=C2=A0of the priorities. The=C2=A0whole proce= ss is described on the=C2=A0web page <a href=3D"https://acoustics.ac.uk/int= ernational-priorities-in-hearing-survey/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bla= nk">https://acoustics.ac.uk/international-priorities-in-hearing-survey/</a>= , but the short version is that we first sent out a wide request for input = and got detailed descriptions of multiple priority areas from over 60 conte= nt experts, resulting in over 15,000 words! We then went through using them= atic analysis, and derived 36 distinct priorities. These range from more pr= ecise and technical, to more abstract, wide-ranging or conceptual. We captu= red each with a brief "slogan", but each of these has a full deta= iled description associated with it. To see these we encourage you to follo= w the links in the actual survey, two of which I have copied here.=C2=A0</d= iv><div><br></div><div>To download the Word document with the full summarie= s, use this link: <a href=3D"https://aruspsych.eu.qualtrics.com/CP/File.php= ?F=3DF_a44G01kyveA99Ou">https://aruspsych.eu.qualtrics.com/CP/File.php?F=3D= F_a44G01kyveA99Ou</a></div><div>To view the YouTube videos that we recorded= with each of the summaries, use this link: <a href=3D"https://www.youtube.= com/watch?v=3DA368MBAcF4Q">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DA368MBAcF4Q</a= ></div><div><br></div><div>Given that choices need to get made, not just by= funders, but by societies, research centers, universities, and even indivi= dual laboratories, I think it is very important that we as a field have ong= oing conversations about what the priority areas are.</div><div><br></div><= div>I personally learned a huge amount by reading the careful and thoughtfu= l responses that came out of the first priority identification phase. We ve= ry much want the ranking phase to be an educational phase as well, by shari= ng the distillation of those 15,000 words that the auditory community wrote= for us. We look forward to publishing a carefully crafted articulation of = what our experts told us they think is important for the field to focus on = in the future.</div><div><br></div><div>In theory, we could have stopped th= ere, but it seems useful to know what the broader community thinks about th= ese priority areas. The ranking is indeed a "one-dimensional" res= ponse mode, but it is the best way we know of to get input from a large and= diverse group of scholars, clinicians, students, and interested stakeholde= rs.</div><div><br></div><div>We sincerely hope you will take this opportuni= ty to learn what the expert group identified as the top 36 priority areas, = and to lend your voice in saying which of these speak to you most clearly.<= /div><div>Again, the survey (and the descriptions of the 36 priority areas)= can be found here:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tinyurl.com/hearingranking" rel= =3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tinyurl.com/hearingranking</a>=C2= =A0We strongly recommend using a computer, as the click and drag interface = is a bit difficult to get the hang of on a phone or tablet.</div><div><br><= /div><div>Thanks again for your thoughtful commentary!</div><div><br></div>= <div>Erick</div><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D= "ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><font color=3D"#00= 0000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"> </font><p style=3D"margin:5pt 0in"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt"><font col= or=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri">-------------------------------------------= --</font></span></p><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font color=3D"#000000"= face=3D"Calibri">Frederick (Erick) Gallun, PhD, FASA, FASHA | he/him/his<b= r></font></p><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font color=3D"#000000" face= =3D"Calibri">Professor,=C2=A0Oregon Hearing Research Center,=C2=A0<font col= or=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri">Oregon Health & Science University</fon= t></font></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font face=3D"monospace" s= ize=3D"1"><font color=3D"#000000">"D</font><span style=3D"color:rgb(76= ,76,76)">iversity is like being invited to a party, Inclusion is being aske= d to dance, and Belonging is dancing like no one=E2=80=99s watching" -= Gregory Lewis</span></font></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span><= font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"> </font></span></div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size= =3D"3"> </font></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmai= l_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat= , Dec 14, 2024 at 4:13=E2=80=AFAM Alain de Cheveigne <<a href=3D"mailto:= alain.de.cheveigne@xxxxxxxx">alain.de.cheveigne@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:= <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8= ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Erick, all, = <br> <br> Thanks for this effort!=C2=A0 It's great to have a wide picture of what= people in the field find of interest. <br> <br> However there's one point that troubles me: ranking. I fear that it mig= ht have unintended effects.=C2=A0 I'll try to explain why.<br> <br> The projects that we could be working on are many, and measures of how inte= resting/useful they are form a high dimensional space. Deciding to fund pro= posal A rather than proposal B involves projecting these measures on a sing= le axis, i.e. choosing a particular weight for each measure. This is hard a= nd requires expertise, which funding panels often lack. <br> <br> It is tempting to replace this messy business by a simple, one-dimensional = topic-dependent measure, or at least use it for triage, or to justify a dec= ision. The measure is 'validated' (via this survey) so a decision b= ased on it is hard to question. Conversely, a panel might think twice befor= e giving money to, say, synaptopathy, or genetics, as the decision might be= challenged based on their rank.=C2=A0 Busy, pragmatic panel members might = not want to take chances. As a side effect, researchers may feel pressure t= o drop low-priority research (regardless of its promise) or 'talk up= 9; aspects to make it look high-priority. None of this seems good to me.<br= > <br> Looking at the current ranking, the oecumenical 'auditory perception= 9; comes top, which is no surprise given that it's what most of us are = working on.=C2=A0 'Better outcomes', 'better hearing aids',= 'better speech comprehension', etc. are hard to disagree with, and= their high rank is thus not super informative. Same for the low ranks of e= .g. 'operational issues' or 'tradition or orthodoxy' (whate= ver that means).=C2=A0 Low ranks of 'genetics' and 'synaptopath= y' are more surprising, thus informative if they can be trusted. Howeve= r that requires ruling out bias or random effects due to the relatively sma= ll number of respondants. Not easy...<br> <br> My gut feeling is good research can be done on any of these topics (and poo= r research too). Synaptopathy is not my field, nor apparently a priority fo= r many, but I see how it feeds into many other aspects of hearing. A high-q= uality project=C2=A0 might lead to a breakthrough with high impact on, say,= 'better outcomes', possibly higher than a project that more tamely= targets 'better outcomes'. <br> <br> So, this initiative is great to give us a panorama of all the good things p= eople see as interesting. Personally, I would downplay its role as a tool t= o guide funding decisions.<br> <br> Alain<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> > On 14 Dec 2024, at 00:40, Frederick Gallun <<a href=3D"mailto:fgall= un@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">fgallun@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br> > <br> > <br> > Dear Auditory Community Members,<br> >=C2=A0 We are in the final month of asking what YOU want to see priorit= ized in Auditory Research! <br> >=C2=A0 Have you told us what you think is most important to put our res= ources to for the field to advance in the coming years?<br> >=C2=A0 You may remember that we collected your feedback on what you thi= nk research priorities should be and what current obstacles to advancement = are and based on this developed 36 priority areas. If you want to know how = we came up with the top 36 priority areas as well as how folks have ranked = them so far (and ask yourself if you agree??), check out our website: <a hr= ef=3D"https://acoustics.ac.uk/international-priorities-in-hearing-survey/" = rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://acoustics.ac.uk/international-= priorities-in-hearing-survey/</a>. <br> > <br> > If you want to contribute to this priority ranking exercise and make s= ure that your voice is heard, please click here to go straight to the surve= y:=C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://tinyurl.com/hearingranking" rel=3D"noreferrer" = target=3D"_blank">https://tinyurl.com/hearingranking</a> We strongly recomm= end using a computer, as the click and drag interface is a bit difficult to= get the hang of on a phone or tablet. <br> >=C2=A0 Why is it so important for YOU to fill out the survey?<br> > 1.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 We aim to make these priorities accessible to e= veryone by publishing the results in a peer-reviewed open-access format, wh= ich we feel would benefit many in the field when talking with funders / pol= icy makers / commissioners.<br> > 2.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In order to represent the international hearing= research community best we need the priority list to be as representative = of the international auditory research landscape as possible and would like= to encourage researchers from all continents to take part.<br> > 3.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The voting ends on December 31st, 2024!<br> >=C2=A0 Thank you, and please don=E2=80=99t hesitate to contact us if yo= u have any questions or have any difficulties with the survey.<br> > <br> > Erick Gallun (<a href=3D"mailto:gallunf@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">ga= llunf@xxxxxxxx</a>)<br> > on behalf of:<br> >=C2=A0 <br> > Rob MacKinnon (<a href=3D"mailto:robert.mackinnon@xxxxxxxx" target=3D= "_blank">robert.mackinnon@xxxxxxxx</a>)<br> > Antje Heinrich (<a href=3D"mailto:antje.heinrich@xxxxxxxx" tar= get=3D"_blank">antje.heinrich@xxxxxxxx</a>)<br> > Chris Sumner (<a href=3D"mailto:christian.sumner@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"= _blank">christian.sumner@xxxxxxxx</a>)<br> > <br> > Members of the UKAN Hearing SIG Committee<br> > <a href=3D"https://acoustics.ac.uk/sigs/hearing-acoustics/" rel=3D"nor= eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://acoustics.ac.uk/sigs/hearing-acoustics/<= /a> <br> >=C2=A0 <br> <br> </blockquote></div></div> --0000000000005dd4d80629456fec--