Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Seeking Advice on Auditory Models for Hearing Loss From: "Picinali, Lorenzo" <l.picinali@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:51:50 +0000--_000_LO0P265MB3035171F69DC33CDEA855DFBBA382LO0P265MB3035GBRP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Sathish, one way to do that could be to use the hearing aid and hearing loss simulat= ion on our (Imperial and University of Malaga) 3D Tune-In Toolkit, then use= the Dietz model (or more recent ones from Barumerli and/or Baumgartner, al= l included in the Auditory Modelling Toolbox<https://amtoolbox.org/>). Here is a video demonstrating the hearing loss/hearing aid simulators on ou= r test application: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DjtEL__hwmq0 If you are using any of those AMT models (Dietz, Baumgartner or Barumerli) = you can of course also use the binaural spatialisation features of the Tool= kit - you can employ BTE hearing aids HRTFs (there are a few around) in Sof= a format, and adjust the ITD to the specific head circumference of each sub= ject. Then you can adjust the various elements of the hearing loss simulato= r (gammatone-based non-linear attenuator and frequency smearing - we have t= wo models for these, one of which is the Baer&Moore model), and either auto= matically fit the hearing aid model, or do it manually to match the way it = was fitted in the behavioural test. The Test Application (the one you see in the video above) is of course free= , and available for MacOS, Windows and Linux at the following link: https://github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit/releases/latest At the link above, you can also download the VST plugin, both for MacOS and= Windows, as well as the Unity wrapper, in case you need them. Just...the main issue I could see with using our simulator with the AMT mod= els is that both hearing aid and loss simulators are non-linear and non-tim= e-invariant, therefore if you want to support findings of a specific behavi= oural study you'll need to be especially careful when calibrating the signa= l level in the digital domain but...it should be doable! best L -- Lorenzo Picinali Professor in Spatial Acoustics and Immersive Audio Dyson School of Design Engineering Imperial College London Dyson Building Imperial College Road South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London E: l.picinali@xxxxxxxx https://profiles.imperial.ac.uk/l.picinali https://www.axdesign.co.uk/ https://www.sonicom.eu/ ________________________________ From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx>= on behalf of Sathish Kumar <sathish.sreeni58@xxxxxxxx> Sent: 13 December 2024 07:06 To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> Subject: [AUDITORY] Seeking Advice on Auditory Models for Hearing Loss Dear members of the auditory list, I've recently been working on behavioral auditory source localization perfo= rmance in hearing aid users. To support my behavioral findings, I am explor= ing computational auditory models for various configurations of hearing los= s. Through the review of the literature, I found that the direction-of-arrival= models proposed by Dietz et al. (2011) and Kayser et al. (2015) are suitab= le for my experiment where the interpretation based on pre-estimated IPD-to= -azimuth mappings with respect to Interaural Coherence and probability dist= ributions. However, both of these models do not account for hearing loss ch= aracteristics. I would greatly appreciate suggestions for other auditory models that might= be suitable for my purpose. Additionally, I am wondering whether I can rep= lace the cochlear and basilar membrane processing steps in Dietz et al. (20= 11) with the hearing loss models. If anyone has experience with this approa= ch, I would be grateful for your advice. Thank you in advance for your suggestions!! Best regards, -- Sathish Kumar PhD Research Scholar Department of Audiology and SLP Kasturba Medical College (MAHE), Mangalore Mob: 9789447666 || E-mail: sathish.sreeni58@xxxxxxxx<mailto:sathish.sreeni= 58@xxxxxxxx> [https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/5byXAEkLcmDiDEuMoWneEZQdjIKw6iXHjfmLsRbz= 0FYhcx20eR5fkDLbv6Pea9afWwT5tctVYd0IA6YZG3DjVnpO5wv6bekCzl0jnN0rHbUDj_i0_lt= Wn5DcTWV_d3VZUj0vee8E3Sn4M_fstbBxj8Q]<https://www.linkedin.com/in/sathish-k= umar-0815121a9/> [https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/xK4xzers236Zr7hl6kTXCcf28ETM6L4XYqRBNoIy= XKXLTMavTMfvDdDVpQZC_uarIITzhAVe-L36vaHFM-9zalrKP9vk45O-eCzHcQdE7pQ4hbJUEqY= ILghXvWrhlqGbOL6obnonsC7O-CDSXgVcxQk]<https://www.researchgate.net/profile/= Sathish-Kumar-163> [https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/TeW5o2pJsNEw0t-KL4RMnHMeyOjtzL8-GjpsM26p= bcbFdR9wKh8FfouojMU57VaePdryTPyW8Y9jXgwUVNfqHDvlrn_gUM8HwlgzD_pa06vUm0Tw9gf= RYz1Pi7PZqRQe32_q9S7Gc0c9DR_YztA2C20]<https://github.com/SATHish64103> --_000_LO0P265MB3035171F69DC33CDEA855DFBBA382LO0P265MB3035GBRP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> <style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo= ttom:0;} </style> </head> <body dir=3D"ltr"> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Dear Sathish,</div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> one way to do that could be to use the hearing aid and hearing loss simulat= ion on our (Imperial and University of Malaga) 3D Tune-In Toolkit, then use= the Dietz model (or more recent ones from Barumerli and/or Baumgartner, al= l included in the <a href=3D"https://amtoolbox.org/" id=3D"LPlnk512056" class=3D"OWAAutoLink"= title=3D"https://amtoolbox.org/" data-auth=3D"NotApplicable"> Auditory Modelling Toolbox</a>).</div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Here is a video demonstrating the hearing loss/hearing aid simulators on ou= r test application:</div> <div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, = Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <a href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DjtEL__hwmq0" id=3D"OWA416b8b1d= -a547-ff3f-ef8b-bb0814afe022" class=3D"MsgExtLink_e313153c-4654-9ba9-069a-0= 96283e91227 OWAAutoLink" title=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DjtEL__h= wmq0" data-auth=3D"NotApplicable">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DjtEL__h= wmq0</a></div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> If you are using any of those AMT models (Dietz, Baumgartner or Barumerli) = you can of course also use the binaural spatialisation features of the Tool= kit - you can employ BTE hearing aids HRTFs (there are a few around) in Sof= a format, and adjust the ITD to the specific head circumference of each subject. Then you can adjust the v= arious elements of the hearing loss simulator (gammatone-based non-linear a= ttenuator and frequency smearing - we have two models for these, one of whi= ch is the Baer&Moore model), and either automatically fit the hearing aid model, or do it manually to match= the way it was fitted in the behavioural test.</div> <div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, = Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> The Test Application (the one you see in the video above) is of course free= , and available for MacOS, Windows and Linux at the following link:</div> <div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, = Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <a href=3D"https://github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit/releases/latest" = id=3D"LPlnk454919" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" title=3D"https://github.com/3DTune= -In/3dti_AudioToolkit/releases/latest" data-auth=3D"NotApplicable">https://= github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit/releases/latest</a></div> <div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, = Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> At the link above, you can also download the VST plugin, both for MacOS and= Windows, as well as the Unity wrapper, in case you need them.</div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Just...the main issue I could see with using our simulator with the AMT mod= els is that both hearing aid and loss simulators are non-linear and non-tim= e-invariant, therefore if you want to support findings of a specific behavi= oural study you'll need to be especially careful when calibrating the signal level in the digital domain but...it s= hould be doable!</div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> best<br> L</div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFo= nt, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div id=3D"Signature" class=3D"elementToProof"> <div style=3D"font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;">--<br> Lorenzo Picinali<br> Professor in Spatial<span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Acoustics an= d Immersive Audio</span><br> Dyson School of Design Engineering<br> Imperial College London<br> Dyson Building<br> Imperial College Road<br> South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London<br> E: l.picinali@xxxxxxxx<br> <u><br> </u><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><a href=3D"https://profiles.imperi= al.ac.uk/l.picinali" id=3D"OWA3ef4e644-02a1-5056-290d-a4933ac700d4" class= =3D"OWAAutoLink" data-auth=3D"NotApplicable">https://profiles.imperial.ac.u= k/l.picinali</a></span><br> <a href=3D"https://www.axdesign.co.uk/" id=3D"OWAbc77326e-0e60-c2c8-16a5-5a= 655e107e9c" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" data-linkindex=3D"2" data-auth=3D"NotAppl= icable">https://www.axdesign.co.uk/</a></div> <div style=3D"font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;"><a href=3D"https://www= .sonicom.eu/" id=3D"OWA9577a88b-d1b1-1a20-b325-0d432a0ae4e9" class=3D"OWAAu= toLink" data-linkindex=3D"3" data-auth=3D"NotApplicable">https://www.sonico= m.eu/</a></div> </div> <div id=3D"appendonsend"></div> <hr style=3D"display: inline-block; width: 98%;"> <div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, = sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> AUDITO= RY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> on be= half of Sathish Kumar <sathish.sreeni58@xxxxxxxx><br> <b>Sent:</b> 13 December 2024 07:06<br> <b>To:</b> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx><b= r> <b>Subject:</b> [AUDITORY] Seeking Advice on Auditory Models for Heari= ng Loss</span> <div> </div> </div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;">Dear members of the auditory list,</div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;">I've recently been working on behavioral aud= itory source localization performance in hearing aid users. To support= my behavioral findings, I am exploring computational auditory models for v= arious configurations of hearing loss. </div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;"><br> </div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;">Through the review of the literature, I foun= d that the direction-of-arrival models proposed by Dietz et al. (2011) and = Kayser et al. (2015) are suitable for my experiment where the interpretatio= n based on pre-estimated IPD-to-azimuth mappings with respect to Interaural Coherence and probability distribution= s. However, both of these models do not account for hearing loss chara= cteristics. </div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;"><br> </div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;">I would greatly appreciate suggestions = for other auditory models that might be suitable for my purpose. Additional= ly, I am wondering whether I can replace the cochlear and basilar membrane = processing steps in Dietz et al. (2011) with the hearing loss models. If anyone has experience with this appr= oach, I would be grateful for your advice.</div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;"><br> </div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;">Thank you in advance for your suggestions!!<= /div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;"><br> </div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;">Best regards,</div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;">--</div> <p style=3D"direction: ltr; line-height: 1.2; margin-top: 0pt; margin-botto= m: 0pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(32, 33, 36); back= ground-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-weight: 700;">Sathish Kumar</span></= p> <p style=3D"direction: ltr; line-height: 1.2; background-color: rgb(255, 25= 5, 255); margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(32, 33, 36);">PhD= Research Scholar</span></p> <p style=3D"direction: ltr; line-height: 1.2; background-color: rgb(255, 25= 5, 255); margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(32, 33, 36);">Dep= artment of Audiology and SLP</span></p> <p style=3D"direction: ltr; line-height: 1.2; background-color: rgb(255, 25= 5, 255); margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(32, 33, 36);">Kas= turba Medical College (MAHE), Mangalore</span></p> <p style=3D"direction: ltr; line-height: 1.2; background-color: rgb(255, 25= 5, 255); margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(32, 33, 36);">Mob= : 9789447666 || E-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:sathish.sreeni58@xxxxxxxx" id=3D"OWA76ce840e-c207-e789-d= 506-b4278c030b61" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bo= ttom: 0px;"> sathish.sreeni58@xxxxxxxx</a></span></p> <p style=3D"direction: ltr; line-height: 1.2; background-color: rgb(255, 25= 5, 255); margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"> <span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </span></p> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; line-height: 1.2; border-width: medium; borde= r-style: none; border-color: currentcolor; width: 38px; height: 38px; displ= ay: inline-block; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: r= gb(0, 0, 0);"> <a href=3D"https://www.linkedin.com/in/sathish-kumar-0815121a9/" id=3D"OWAd= dd8acb1-4b51-c6e4-fe2b-801e4e332142" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" data-auth=3D"Not= Applicable"><img style=3D"width: 38px; height: 38px; margin-top: 0px; margi= n-left: 0px;" width=3D"38" height=3D"38" src=3D"https://lh6.googleuserconte= nt.com/5byXAEkLcmDiDEuMoWneEZQdjIKw6iXHjfmLsRbz0FYhcx20eR5fkDLbv6Pea9afWwT5= tctVYd0IA6YZG3DjVnpO5wv6bekCzl0jnN0rHbUDj_i0_ltWn5DcTWV_d3VZUj0vee8E3Sn4M_f= stbBxj8Q"></a></div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; line-height: 1.2; font-family: Arial, sans-se= rif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> </div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; line-height: 1.2; border-width: medium; borde= r-style: none; border-color: currentcolor; width: 38px; height: 38px; displ= ay: inline-block; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: r= gb(0, 0, 0);"> <a href=3D"https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sathish-Kumar-163" id=3D"OW= A6c51515d-67fa-763d-2fa1-b3dad0ba871b" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" data-auth=3D"N= otApplicable"><img style=3D"width: 38px; height: 38px; margin-top: 0px; mar= gin-left: 0px;" width=3D"38" height=3D"38" src=3D"https://lh5.googleusercon= tent.com/xK4xzers236Zr7hl6kTXCcf28ETM6L4XYqRBNoIyXKXLTMavTMfvDdDVpQZC_uarII= TzhAVe-L36vaHFM-9zalrKP9vk45O-eCzHcQdE7pQ4hbJUEqYILghXvWrhlqGbOL6obnonsC7O-= CDSXgVcxQk"></a></div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; line-height: 1.2; font-family: Arial, sans-se= rif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> </div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; line-height: 1.2; border-width: medium; borde= r-style: none; border-color: currentcolor; width: 38px; height: 38px; displ= ay: inline-block; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: r= gb(0, 0, 0);"> <a href=3D"https://github.com/SATHish64103" id=3D"OWAb7b77a51-7bf9-6b07-125= 5-331b80fa03d9" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" data-auth=3D"NotApplicable"><img styl= e=3D"width: 38px; height: 38px; margin-top: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" width= =3D"38" height=3D"38" src=3D"https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/TeW5o2pJsNEw= 0t-KL4RMnHMeyOjtzL8-GjpsM26pbcbFdR9wKh8FfouojMU57VaePdryTPyW8Y9jXgwUVNfqHDv= lrn_gUM8HwlgzD_pa06vUm0Tw9gfRYz1Pi7PZqRQe32_q9S7Gc0c9DR_YztA2C20"></a></div= > <div style=3D"direction: ltr; line-height: 1.2; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br> </div> </body> </html> --_000_LO0P265MB3035171F69DC33CDEA855DFBBA382LO0P265MB3035GBRP_--