Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] ITD KEMAR/HATS data as a function of frequency and azimuth From: Frederico Pereira <pereira.frederico@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 15:47:32 +0000--0000000000003505a206100373a0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003505a0061003739f" --0000000000003505a0061003739f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have also been quite interested in pin point the best ITD calculation method (and frequency cut off) that best relates to perceptual data. As for matlab code I can recommend the AMToolbox (ITD estimator). It supports various estimation methods and you can adjust LP cutoff frequency to get ITDs considering various bandwidths. You can load any SOFA format HRTF dataset. https://www.amtoolbox.org Best, - Frederico Pereira On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 5:04=E2=80=AFAM Pierre Divenyi <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx= ford.edu> wrote: > =EF=BB=BFGreetings all, > > Interesting Brian, but I would much like to know what Jens Blauert thinks > of all this. > > Best, > Pierre > > Pardon my typos. It's Apple's fault. > > On Jan 24, 2024, at 02:06, Brian FG Katz < > brian.katz@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > =EF=BB=BF > > Dear Dr. Rhebergen, list, > > > > There has been some discussion over the years about the frequency > dependence of ITD. While of course it is possible to calculate almost > anything, the physicality of such a notion remains tenuous in my opinion, > as air is not particularly a dispersive medium (i.e. low frequencies are > not travelling around the head faster that higher frequencies). I therefo= re > offer several points for thought on the question=E2=80=A6 > > > > In general, when considering ITD data, one must be aware of the > calculation method, as different methods can produce significantly > different results. See for example our study a decade ago now on the > subject: > > > > B. F. G. Katz and M. Noisternig, =E2=80=9CA comparative study of interaur= al time > delay estimation methods,=E2=80=9D *J Acoust Soc Am*, vol. 135, no. 6, > pp. 3530=E2=80=933540, 2014, doi:10.1121/1.4875714 > <https://doi.org/10.1121/1.4875714> > > > > Following this, there remains the question of which ITD estimation method > is most coherent with perception. A follow-up study on this point was als= o > carried out on that point as well: > > > > A. Andreopoulou and B. F. G. Katz, =E2=80=9CIdentification of perceptuall= y > relevant methods of inter-aural time difference estimation,=E2=80=9D *J A= coust > Soc Am*, vol. 142, no. 2, pp. 588=E2=80=93598, 2017, doi:10.1121/1.499645= 7 > <https://doi.org/10.1121/1.4996457>. > > > > The following chapter also provides an overview and some graphical data o= n > ITD for the Neumann KU100, including function of distance: > > > > B. F. G. Katz and R. Nicol, =E2=80=9CBinaural spatial reproduction,=E2=80= =9D in *Sensory* *Evaluation > of Sound *(N. Zacharov, ed.), pp. 349=E2=80=93388, Boca Raton: CRC Press,= 2019, > (url) > <http://www.crcpress.com/Sensory-Evaluation-of-Sound/Zacharov/p/book/9781= 498751360>. > ISBN 978-1-4987-5136-0. > > > > Cheers, > > -Brian > > -- > > Brian FG Katz, Research Director, CNRS > > Groupe Lutheries - Acoustique =E2=80=93 Musique > > Sorbonne Universit=C3=A9, CNRS, UMR 7190, Institut Jean Le Rond =E2=88=82= 'Alembert > > http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz > > > > *De :* AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception < > AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> *De la part de* Rhebergen, K.S. (Koen) > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* mardi 23 janvier 2024 15:17 > *=C3=80 :* AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx > *Objet :* [AUDITORY] ITD KEMAR/HATS data as a function of frequency and > azimuth > > > > Dear list, > > > > I am looking for a lookup table (or matlab code ) with ITD data measured > with a KEMAR of hats in an anachoric room as a function of frequency > (~100Hz to 8000Hz) and azimuth (0:5:180) > > If someone can send me a copy or matlab code it would be greatly > appreciated. > > > > With kind regards > > *Koen Rhebergen* > > > > > > [image: image001.png] > > > > > > > > Dr. K.S. Rhebergen > > Klinisch fysicus - audioloog | functiecentrum KNO (AZU) | Kind & > Communicatie (WKZ) > > Universitair Medisch Centrum Utrecht > > --=20 Frederico Pereira Mobile:+351 937356301 *Audio and Acoustics, Perception Interaction and Usability* Email:pereira.frederico@xxxxxxxx --0000000000003505a0061003739f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">I have also been quite interested in pin point the best IT= D calculation=C2=A0method (and frequency cut off) =C2=A0that best relates t= o perceptual data.<div>As for=C2=A0matlab code I can recommend=C2=A0the AMT= oolbox (ITD estimator). It supports various estimation methods and you can = adjust LP cutoff frequency to get ITDs considering various bandwidths. You = can load any SOFA format HRTF dataset.</div><div><a href=3D"https://www.amt= oolbox.org">https://www.amtoolbox.org</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Best= ,</div><div>- Frederico Pereira</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D= "gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at= 5:04=E2=80=AFAM Pierre Divenyi <<a href=3D"mailto:pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx= rd.edu">pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;= border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex= "><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BFGreetings all,<div><br></div>= <div>Interesting Brian, but I would much like to know what Jens Blauert thi= nks of all this.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Pierre<br><br><di= v dir=3D"ltr">Pardon my typos. It's Apple's fault.=C2=A0</div><div = dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 24, 2024, at 02:06, Brian = FG Katz <<a href=3D"mailto:brian.katz@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"= _blank">brian.katz@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquot= e></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div><p class= =3D"MsoNormal">Dear Dr. Rhebergen, list, <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN= ormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">There has been some d= iscussion over the years about the frequency dependence of ITD. While of co= urse it is possible to calculate almost anything, the physicality of such a= notion remains tenuous in my opinion, as air is not particularly a dispers= ive medium (i.e. low frequencies are not travelling around the head faster = that higher frequencies). I therefore offer several points for thought on t= he question=E2=80=A6 <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0= <u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">In general, when considering ITD data, on= e must be aware of the calculation method, as different methods can produce= significantly different results. See for example our study a decade ago no= w on the subject:<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u><= /u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"col= or:black">B.=C2=A0F.=C2=A0G. Katz and M.=C2=A0Noisternig, =E2=80=9CA compar= ative study of interaural time delay estimation methods,=E2=80=9D=C2=A0<spa= n><i>J Acoust Soc Am</i></span>, vol.=C2=A0135, no.=C2=A06, pp.=C2=A03530= =E2=80=933540, 2014, doi:</span><a href=3D"https://doi.org/10.1121/1.487571= 4" target=3D"_blank">10.1121/1.4875714</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"Mso= Normal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Following this, ther= e remains the question of which ITD estimation method is most coherent with= perception. A follow-up study on this point was also carried out on that p= oint as well:<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><= /p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"color:b= lack">A.=C2=A0Andreopoulou and B.=C2=A0F.=C2=A0G. Katz, =E2=80=9CIdentifica= tion of perceptually relevant methods of inter-aural time difference estima= tion,=E2=80=9D=C2=A0<span><i>J Acoust Soc Am</i></span>, vol.=C2=A0142, no.= =C2=A02, pp.=C2=A0588=E2=80=93598, 2017, doi:</span><a href=3D"https://doi.= org/10.1121/1.4996457" target=3D"_blank">10.1121/1.4996457</a><span style= =3D"color:black">.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>= =C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The following chapter also provides= an overview and some graphical data on ITD for the Neumann KU100, includin= g function of distance:<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2= =A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style= =3D"color:black">B.=C2=A0F.=C2=A0G. Katz and R.=C2=A0Nicol, =E2=80=9CBinaur= al spatial reproduction,=E2=80=9D in=C2=A0<span><i>Sensory</i></span>=C2=A0= <span><i>Evaluation of Sound=C2=A0</i></span>(N.=C2=A0Zacharov, ed.), pp.= =C2=A0349=E2=80=93388, Boca Raton: CRC Press, 2019,=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"= http://www.crcpress.com/Sensory-Evaluation-of-Sound/Zacharov/p/book/9781498= 751360" target=3D"_blank">(url)</a><span style=3D"color:black">. ISBN 978-1= -4987-5136-0.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<= u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNo= rmal">-Brian<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"co= lor:rgb(31,73,125)">--</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso= Normal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Brian FG Katz, Research Direct= or, CNRS</span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span = lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Groupe Lutheries = - Acoustique =E2=80=93 Musique</span><span lang=3D"FR"><u></u><u></u></span= ></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10pt;color= :rgb(31,73,125)">Sorbonne Universit=C3=A9, CNRS, UMR 7190, Institut Jean Le= Rond =E2=88=82'Alembert </span><span lang=3D"FR"><u></u><u></u></span>= </p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"= ><a href=3D"http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz" target=3D"_blank"><span= style=3D"color:blue">http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz</span></a></sp= an><span lang=3D"FR"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">= <span lang=3D"FR"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border-= style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225= );padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"FR">De=C2=A0= :</span></b><span lang=3D"FR"> AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception &= lt;<a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx= ISTS.MCGILL.CA</a>> <b>De la part de</b> Rhebergen, K.S. (Koen)<br><b>En= voy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> mardi 23 janvier 2024 15:17<br><b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> <a= href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx= MCGILL.CA</a><br><b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> [AUDITORY] ITD KEMAR/HATS data as a fu= nction of frequency and azimuth<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p clas= s=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang= =3D"NL">Dear list,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lan= g=3D"NL"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar= gin-bottom:12pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family= :"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black;background-color:white">I am l= ooking for a lookup table (or matlab code ) with ITD data measured with a K= EMAR of hats in an anachoric room as a function of frequency (~100Hz to 800= 0Hz) and azimuth (0:5:180)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10= .5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u= ></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:= 10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black">If someone = can send me a copy or matlab code it would be greatly appreciated.</span><s= pan lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span la= ng=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span la= ng=3D"NL" style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black"= >With kind regards<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span = lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:rgb(= 31,73,125)">Koen Rhebergen<u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma= l"><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI&qu= ot;,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN= ormal"><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-ser= if"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"NL"= style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black"><img bor= der=3D"0" width=3D"161" height=3D"47" style=3D"width: 1.675in; height: 0.49= 16in;" id=3D"m_6476973870028368713Afbeelding_x0020_1" alt=3D"image001.png" = src=3D"cid:ii_18d509c75fd4cff311"></span><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-fa= mily:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>= <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-fami= ly:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>= </p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-= family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></s= pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;f= ont-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u= ></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-size:9pt= ;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black">Dr. K.S. Rheberge= n<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justif= y"><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI"= ;,sans-serif;color:black">Klinisch fysicus - audioloog | functiecentrum KNO= (AZU) | Kind & Communicatie (WKZ)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"= MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-siz= e:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:black">Universitair= Medisch Centrum Utrecht <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></blockquote>= </div></div></div></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div><span= class=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g= mail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Frederico Pereira<br>Mobile:+351 937356301= <div><i>Audio and Acoustics, Perception Interaction and Usability</i><br><d= iv><div><a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Apereira.frederico@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_b= lank">Email:pereira.frederico@xxxxxxxx</a></div></div></div></div></div> --0000000000003505a0061003739f-- --0000000000003505a206100373a0 Content-Type: image/png; 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