Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Eight Years of the monotoSTEREO.info Website! From: Les Bernstein <lbernstein@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2023 09:52:35 -0500--------------YmZfiFq5ZlZYGDr0QpWMbqI0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by edgeum3.it.mcgill.ca id 311EqmM4111556 Hi Alain, Your observations are interesting.=C2=A0 I don't think, however, they rel= ate=20 to stereo or mono, /per se/.=C2=A0 I think they relate to separable sourc= es,=20 i.e., speech and background music in the scenarios you described.=C2=A0 S= o=20 far as the spectral effects you described, they have been quite well=20 studied, documented, and and described in literature that's decades=20 old.=C2=A0 Now, the purists among us don't employ our "stereos" as=20 background.=C2=A0 We sit in the sweet spot for the phantom image which, w= ith=20 a proper arrangement, can be quite punctate.=C2=A0 Hey, but if you're goi= ng=20 to go walking around...=C2=A0 If people want to talk, they can go in the=20 kitchen.=F0=9F=98=81 Les On 1/30/2023 6:59 AM, Alain de Cheveigne wrote: > *** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, openi= ng attachments or clicking on links. *** > > It sounds like a joke, but there may be a deeper wisdom. Here's a conje= cture. > > Mono is superior to stereo, in some situations, because the sound field= it produces is more "transparent". In other words, it is a less pervadin= g masker of other sounds. > > Anecdotally, I've experienced situations where the background music is = at the same time muffled and disruptive of conversations, and others wher= e both seem relatively easy to perceive. In the former, people tend to sp= eak louder (Lombard effect), which prompts the music lovers to sneak over= to the hifi system and notch up the volume at which point everyone start= s shouting. I tend to associate the former with a reverberant space and = stereo (particularly additional speakers), and the latter with an acousti= cally damped space and mono (particularly played from an adjacent room). = Whether there is a basis to the stereo/mono part of this this is unclear. > > Stereo might have an adverse effect on multiple sound segregation cues.= In an anechoic space you would lose the benefit of a point source, and = this might carry over in part to more reverberant environments. You're le= ss likely to have a head shadow benefit if sound comes from both sides. = Spectro-temporal gaps are likely to be fewer and shallower, harmonicity c= ues smeared, and so-on. Stereo-enhancing algorithms might further degrade= these cues if they involve convolution (filters). > > I'd love to know of any work that corroborates or disproves this conjec= ture, for example based on behaviour, sound field measurements, or simula= tions. > > Alain > > >> On 30 Jan 2023, at 09:51, Richard F. Lyon<dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> Les, that's precious! Thanks for keeping us up to date on 50-year-old= satirical ideas! >> >> Dick >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 4:11 PM Les Bernstein<lbernstein@xxxxxxxx> wr= ote: >> Interesting, but why? After all, monophonic sound is superior to ster= eo sound! See the attached regarding converting to monophonic sound. You= 're about 50 years too late.=F0=9F=99=82 >> >> Les Bernstein >> >> -- >> Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. | Professor Emeritus >> Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology) | UConn School of = Medicine >> 263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401 >> Office: 860.679.4622 | Fax: 860.679.2495 >> >> <ngkmNXu0eyag67PD.png> >> >> >> >> On 1/28/2023 10:48 PM, Christopher Kissel wrote: >>> *** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, ope= ning attachments or clicking on links. *** >>> Greetings! >>> >>> For many years it was considered impossible to realistically convert = mono musical source material to stereo. In fact, consider this statement = in the Third Edition of The New Stereo Soundbook by Ron Streicher & F. Al= ton Everest (2006 Audio Engineering Associates), undoubtably one of the m= ost authoritative books published on the subject of stereo sound: >>> >>> =E2=80=9CThe most important point in studying the various methods of = converting a mono signal to stereo is the realization that it is impossib= le to do so: the best that can be hoped for is a signal that has some of = the characteristics of a stereo signal.=E2=80=9D >>> >>> On January 29, 2015 my website, monotoSTEREO.info, went live. I start= ed the website to provide a collection of resources for individuals inter= ested in upmixing older mono source material to stereo through the use of= spectral editing and audio (sound) source separation... more specificall= y, music source separation. In that time the website has been visited ove= r 66,000 times by individuals in 185 countries! >>> >>> The goal of this technology is the creating of stereo mixes that are = virtually indistinguishable from stereo mixes created using multitrack se= ssion tapes, had they existed. >>> >>> There are now several hundred examples mono recordings that have been= upmixed to stereo using this technology which have been linked to on the= MEDIA pages of the website. A number of these have been released commerc= ially: >>> >>> MEDIA 1 >>> >>> MEDIA 2 >>> >>> MEDIA 3 >>> >>> MEDIA 4 >>> >>> MEDIA 5 >>> >>> MEDIA 6 >>> >>> MEDIA 7 >>> >>> MEDIA 8 >>> >>> MEDIA 9 >>> >>> MEDIA 10 >>> >>> MEDIA 11 >>> >>> MEDIA 12 >>> >>> MEDIA 13 >>> >>> MEDIA 14 >>> >>> MEDIA 15 >>> >>> MEDIA 16 >>> >>> MEDIA 17 >>> >>> MEDIA 18 >>> >>> MEDIA 19 >>> >>> MEDIA 20 >>> >>> MEDIA 21 >>> >>> MEDIA 22 >>> >>> MEDIA 23 >>> >>> MEDIA 24 >>> >>> MEDIA 25 >>> >>> Links to commercially available releases which utilize this technolog= y can be found here: >>> >>> LATEST RELEASES >>> >>> RELEASED 1 >>> >>> RELEASED 2 >>> >>> There are now a total of 106 tools featured on the TOOLS pages of the= website, which are accessible from the pull-down menus anywhere on the w= ebsite: >>> >>> TOOLS (A-C) >>> >>> TOOLS (D-I) >>> >>> TOOLS (J-R) >>> >>> TOOLS (S) >>> >>> TOOLS (T-Z) >>> >>> More tools continue to be added, including web-based services and eve= n music source separation apps that run on iOS and Android devices! >>> >>> There are now over 1,700 research papers, presentations, etc. linked = to on the RESEARCH pages of the website! >>> >>> A companion Facebook page for the website provides updates and relate= d content. Be sure to =E2=80=9CLike=E2=80=9D the Facebook page to follow = it for the updates! >>> >>> You can also follow me on Mastodon:https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:= //techhub.social/@xxxxxxxx;!!Cn_UX_p3!g4K3ECC8DMsKrv9zH7kOe7Riji5= 70UtuCAHXOogFfA3J4EFMLMMu1UC8x6q4DIN8_LRTcmglNHgU1zaRy89_1KrxTFZ8JIU$ >>> >>> I=E2=80=99d like to take this opportunity to again thank the engineer= s who have been showcasing what is possible with this technology. I must = also thank the various researchers and developers who have made this tech= nology accessible, powerful, and useable for so many. The technology and = the tools to utilize it continue to improve dramatically! Lastly, a big t= hank you to the visitors to the website. Your continued interest and supp= ort are very much appreciated! I sincerely hope that you continue to find= the website interesting, informative, educational, and inspiring! >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Christopher Kissel >>> Owner & Webmaster of monotoSTEREO.info >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> --=20 *Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. **| *Professor Emeritus Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology) | UConn School of=20 Medicine 263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401 Office: 860.679.4622 | Fax: 860.679.2495 --------------YmZfiFq5ZlZYGDr0QpWMbqI0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------0VnyqQvOitfFNliMgISh0W8w" --------------0VnyqQvOitfFNliMgISh0W8w Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by edgeum3.it.mcgill.ca id 311EqmM4111556 <html><head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"> </head> <body> <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix"><font face=3D"Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Hi Alain,<br> <br> Your observations are interesting. I don't think, however, = they relate to stereo or mono, <i>per se</i>. I think they relat= e to separable sources, i.e., speech and background music in the scenarios you described. So far as the spectral effects you described, they have been quite well studied, documented, and and described in literature that's decades old. Now, the purists among us don't employ our "stereos" as backgrou= nd. We sit in the sweet spot for the phantom image which, with a proper arrangement, can be quite punctate. Hey, but if you're goin= g to go walking around... If people want to talk, they can go in= the kitchen.=F0=9F=98=81<br> <br> Les<br> </font><br> <br> On 1/30/2023 6:59 AM, Alain de Cheveigne wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:FD79F4FE-20B9-46E1-A27E-00115EE= 16E6F@xxxxxxxx"> <pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" wrap=3D"">*** Attention: This is an ex= ternal email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on = links. *** It sounds like a joke, but there may be a deeper wisdom. Here's a conject= ure. Mono is superior to stereo, in some situations, because the sound field i= t produces is more "transparent". In other words, it is a less = pervading masker of other sounds. Anecdotally, I've experienced situations where the background music is at= the same time muffled and disruptive of conversations, and others where = both seem relatively easy to perceive. In the former, people tend to spea= k louder (Lombard effect), which prompts the music lovers to sneak over t= o the hifi system and notch up the volume at which point everyone starts = shouting. I tend to associate the former with a reverberant space and st= ereo (particularly additional speakers), and the latter with an acoustica= lly damped space and mono (particularly played from an adjacent room). W= hether there is a basis to the stereo/mono part of this this is unclear. Stereo might have an adverse effect on multiple sound segregation cues. = In an anechoic space you would lose the benefit of a point source, and th= is might carry over in part to more reverberant environments. You're less= likely to have a head shadow benefit if sound comes from both sides. Sp= ectro-temporal gaps are likely to be fewer and shallower, harmonicity cue= s smeared, and so-on. Stereo-enhancing algorithms might further degrade t= hese cues if they involve convolution (filters). I'd love to know of any work that corroborates or disproves this conjectu= re, for example based on behaviour, sound field measurements, or simulati= ons. Alain </pre> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" wrap=3D"">On 30 Jan 2023, at 09:51, = Richard F. Lyon <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:dicklyo= n@xxxxxxxx"><dicklyon@xxxxxxxx></a> wrote: Les, that's precious! Thanks for keeping us up to date on 50-year-old sa= tirical ideas! Dick On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 4:11 PM Les Bernstein <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rf= c2396E" href=3D"mailto:lbernstein@xxxxxxxx"><lbernstein@xxxxxxxx></= a> wrote: Interesting, but why? After all, monophonic sound is superior to stereo = sound! See the attached regarding converting to monophonic sound. You're= about 50 years too late.=F0=9F=99=82 Les Bernstein -- Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. | Professor Emeritus Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology) | UConn School of Med= icine 263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401 Office: 860.679.4622 | Fax: 860.679.2495 <ngkmNXu0eyag67PD.png> On 1/28/2023 10:48 PM, Christopher Kissel wrote: </pre> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" wrap=3D"">*** Attention: This is a= n external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking= on links. *** Greetings! For many years it was considered impossible to realistically convert mono= musical source material to stereo. In fact, consider this statement in t= he Third Edition of The New Stereo Soundbook by Ron Streicher & F. Al= ton Everest (2006 Audio Engineering Associates), undoubtably one of the m= ost authoritative books published on the subject of stereo sound: =E2=80=9CThe most important point in studying the various methods of conv= erting a mono signal to stereo is the realization that it is impossible t= o do so: the best that can be hoped for is a signal that has some of the = characteristics of a stereo signal.=E2=80=9D On January 29, 2015 my website, monotoSTEREO.info, went live. I started t= he website to provide a collection of resources for individuals intereste= d in upmixing older mono source material to stereo through the use of spe= ctral editing and audio (sound) source separation... more specifically, m= usic source separation. In that time the website has been visited over 66= ,000 times by individuals in 185 countries! The goal of this technology is the creating of stereo mixes that are virt= ually indistinguishable from stereo mixes created using multitrack sessio= n tapes, had they existed. There are now several hundred examples mono recordings that have been upm= ixed to stereo using this technology which have been linked to on the MED= IA pages of the website. A number of these have been released commerciall= y: MEDIA 1 MEDIA 2 MEDIA 3 MEDIA 4 MEDIA 5 MEDIA 6 MEDIA 7 MEDIA 8 MEDIA 9 MEDIA 10 MEDIA 11 MEDIA 12 MEDIA 13 MEDIA 14 MEDIA 15 MEDIA 16 MEDIA 17 MEDIA 18 MEDIA 19 MEDIA 20 MEDIA 21 MEDIA 22 MEDIA 23 MEDIA 24 MEDIA 25 Links to commercially available releases which utilize this technology ca= n be found here: LATEST RELEASES RELEASED 1 RELEASED 2 There are now a total of 106 tools featured on the TOOLS pages of the web= site, which are accessible from the pull-down menus anywhere on the websi= te: TOOLS (A-C) TOOLS (D-I) TOOLS (J-R) TOOLS (S) TOOLS (T-Z) More tools continue to be added, including web-based services and even mu= sic source separation apps that run on iOS and Android devices! There are now over 1,700 research papers, presentations, etc. linked to o= n the RESEARCH pages of the website! A companion Facebook page for the website provides updates and related co= ntent. Be sure to =E2=80=9CLike=E2=80=9D the Facebook page to follow it f= or the updates! You can also follow me on Mastodon: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" hr= ef=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://techhub.social/@xxxxxxxx= _;!!Cn_UX_p3!g4K3ECC8DMsKrv9zH7kOe7Riji570UtuCAHXOogFfA3J4EFMLMMu1UC8x6q4= DIN8_LRTcmglNHgU1zaRy89_1KrxTFZ8JIU$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/= /techhub.social/@xxxxxxxx;!!Cn_UX_p3!g4K3ECC8DMsKrv9zH7kOe7Riji57= 0UtuCAHXOogFfA3J4EFMLMMu1UC8x6q4DIN8_LRTcmglNHgU1zaRy89_1KrxTFZ8JIU$</a> I=E2=80=99d like to take this opportunity to again thank the engineers wh= o have been showcasing what is possible with this technology. I must also= thank the various researchers and developers who have made this technolo= gy accessible, powerful, and useable for so many. The technology and the = tools to utilize it continue to improve dramatically! Lastly, a big thank= you to the visitors to the website. Your continued interest and support = are very much appreciated! I sincerely hope that you continue to find the= website interesting, informative, educational, and inspiring! Best regards, Christopher Kissel Owner & Webmaster of monotoSTEREO.info </pre> </blockquote> <pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" wrap=3D""> </pre> </blockquote> </blockquote> <br> <br> <div class=3D"moz-signature">-- <br> =20 <title></title> <div class=3D"moz-signature"> <div class=3D"moz-signature"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f= ont-family:"Arial",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#002048"">Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. </span>= </b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans= -serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858"">| </span></b><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-fami= ly:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858"">Professor Emeritus</span><= span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman""><o:p>= </o:p></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial"= ;,sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858""></span><br> <div class=3D"moz-signature"> <div class=3D"moz-signature"> <div class=3D"moz-signature"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0p= t;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858""></span> <div class=3D"moz-signature"><span style=3D"font-size:10.= 0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858""> Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology) | UConn School of Medicine </span><br> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial= ",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858""></span><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858"">263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401</span><br> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial= ",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858""></span><span style=3D"font-s= ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman \;color\:\#585858"">Office: 860.679.4622 | Fax: 860.679.2495<br> <br> <img moz-do-not-send=3D"false" src=3D"cid:part1.tHI98= qAc.SPNPwcu0@xxxxxxxx" alt=3D"" width=3D"125" height=3D"48"><br> </span> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --------------0VnyqQvOitfFNliMgISh0W8w Content-Type: image/png; name="image001.png" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.png" Content-ID: <part1.tHI98qAc.SPNPwcu0@xxxxxxxx> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAH0AAAAwCAMAAAALmIWlAAAAGXRFWHRTb2Z0d2FyZQBBZG9iZSBJ bWFnZVJlYWR5ccllPAAAADNQTFRFKzVYHCZM4eLn8PHzpKi30dTbaG+IlZqrs7fDWWB8O0Nkd32U wsXPSlJwhoufDRhA////A68jmAAAABF0Uk5T/////////////////////wAlrZliAAACYklEQVR4 2uzY22KDIAwAUC7e6gjw/187gUC4OetaupflaTXKWSuBKNMuJptC+QMCP20auPHBQCubBWU46K24 uB7NfZ58ZqaMP8D8AEBHtT/goXnB8WPwBf8r1WYUXWxUOZobHcJXIMcfONclmE4s0lrRzYBIOjvT jX5WV6YbP2ZQJ6TWjfiAbuYzHW7p+xpuolQrP83sjQ5nupnu6LqaJ92MbnSznulcfkBHpNXNY6y+ c0JKnWX1eFeflQt5qcNESKnrQMrf6LSAXeiWkEoXdOU4nZBKxzPnoTohtW5ZZyK8W09Io6tYjyP1 iDS6XbAeh815S0irS6zHUfXuB0Ok1S3W41AdEWh1/Nb7UD1bWytd0LY4ThdnerYbBJ1taT5XBmy4 J8mNnWagp5fbba6HeiTdneK6vNgoFj0EhyO4eSZT6AlpdNXoNzqYi94GbIU0eqhHp3d5drRf4heZ Uo9Iq8vYptup6VB37H6m/W6m0hFpdaxH3/yK9cHpVq5Zy59n2GMV/QxPGdV9NElPE9njyOozsfWW Kq6j7bLuw97KPBnM/mX86//6n+tH/yLKP7AUXcyd80Lx53WnspB47ty5qKND1gLockfIFzHR7srp Q7X0+6GgHPNFXedPyaN1CPFli71z+ZBeTxbcI2RXxwOQj/lW/Ui610Z6gA4a32WRrssXYbO76V/Z y6FLnZVj/qCnqGcdZE1DeFKcntWrMV/RZXCh7B/fpF/+8tQQx6J74y9/Oeuyrm75+Jyf8oKWH9CL 1SYNJtJ91HTOAD2fdjPN9UcsumwmDNYXqvPtOLa9pH8LMACnoV0siZAyOAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== --------------0VnyqQvOitfFNliMgISh0W8w-- --------------YmZfiFq5ZlZYGDr0QpWMbqI0--