Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Estimation of auditory sensory thresholds from below: any evidence? From: =?UTF-8?B?VGFtw6FzIEhhcmN6b3M=?= <tamas.harczos@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2023 08:47:15 +0100This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --18be165ef0f6f9828b892f3ff1 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by edgeum3.it.mcgill.ca id 3AI7lKw5086521 I agree with Dick. Keeping the motivation up is key in listening tests! Tamas Am 18. November 2023 06:54:27 schrieb "Richard F. Lyon" <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx= >: > I think the subject needs to feel like they're doing the job well, so=20 > starting easy (above threshold) makes sense. And they get to know very= =20 > well what signal to listen for. > > If you approach from below, they don't know what signal to expect, so m= ay=20 > not be in an "optimal detector" state of mind. > > Dick > > > On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 9:19=E2=80=AFPM Massimo Grassi <massimo.grassi@xxxxxxxx= unipd.it> wrote: > Dear all, > > I was recently writing a paper about threshold estimation in hearing an= d at=20 > some point I stopped. > > Let suppose you are estimating a frequency discrimination threshold wit= h a=20 > classic 2-down 1-up staircase rule (Levitt, 1971). Theoretically, you c= ould=20 > approach the threshold from below or from above, I repeat this every ye= ar=20 > to 1st year students when I teach them the method of limits! In practic= e,=20 > however, in psychoacoustics we rarely-to-never approach the threshold f= rom=20 > below. > > Is there any reason for this "tradition"? I know the psychometric funct= ion=20 > should be symmetric below and above threshold! But this does not explai= n=20 > the "tradition"! > > All the best from "it is almost winter" North East Italy. > m --18be165ef0f6f9828b892f3ff1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.= w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd"> <html> <body> <div dir=3D"auto"> <div dir=3D"auto">I agree with Dick. Keeping the motivation up is key in li= stening tests!</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Tamas</di= v><div dir=3D'auto'><br></div> <div id=3D"aqm-original" style=3D"color: black;"> <!-- body start --> <div class=3D"aqm-original-body"> <div style=3D"color: black;"> <p style=3D"color: black; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; margin:= 8pt 0;">Am 18. November 2023 06:54:27 schrieb "Richard F. Lyon" <dickly= on@xxxxxxxx>:</p> <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.75= ex; border-left: 1px solid #808080; padding-left: 0.75ex;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I t= hink the subject needs to feel like they're doing the job well, so starting= easy (above threshold) makes sense. And they get to know very well w= hat signal to listen for.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-s= ize:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"= >If you approach from below, they don't know what signal to expect, so may = not be in an "optimal detector" state of mind.</div><div class=3D"gmail_def= ault" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl= e=3D"font-size:small">Dick</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-= size:small"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"= class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 9:19=E2=80=AFPM Massimo Grass= i <<a href=3D"mailto:massimo.grassi@xxxxxxxx">massimo.grassi@xxxxxxxx</a= >> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px= 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><di= v dir=3D"ltr">Dear all,<div><br></div><div>I was recently writing a paper a= bout threshold estimation in hearing and at some point I stopped. = ;</div><div><br></div><div>Let suppose you are estimating a frequency discr= imination threshold with a classic 2-down 1-up staircase rule (Levitt, 1971= ). Theoretically, you could approach the threshold from below or from above= , I repeat this every year to 1st year students when I teach them the = method of limits! In practice, however, in psychoacoustics we rarely-to-nev= er approach the threshold from below.</div><div><br></div><div>Is there any= reason for this "tradition"? I know the psychometric function should = be symmetric below and above threshold! But this does not explain the "trad= ition"!</div><div><br></div><div>All the best from "it is almost winter" No= rth East Italy.</div><div>m</div></div> </blockquote></div> </blockquote> </div> </div> <!-- body end --> </div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div> </div></body> </html> --18be165ef0f6f9828b892f3ff1--