Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Estimation of auditory sensory thresholds from below: any evidence? From: "Richard F. Lyon" <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 21:30:44 -0800--00000000000099e486060a668e8f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think the subject needs to feel like they're doing the job well, so starting easy (above threshold) makes sense. And they get to know very well what signal to listen for. If you approach from below, they don't know what signal to expect, so may not be in an "optimal detector" state of mind. Dick On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 9:19=E2=80=AFPM Massimo Grassi <massimo.grassi@xxxxxxxx= d.it> wrote: > Dear all, > > I was recently writing a paper about threshold estimation in hearing and > at some point I stopped. > > Let suppose you are estimating a frequency discrimination threshold with = a > classic 2-down 1-up staircase rule (Levitt, 1971). Theoretically, you cou= ld > approach the threshold from below or from above, I repeat this every year > to 1st year students when I teach them the method of limits! In practice, > however, in psychoacoustics we rarely-to-never approach the threshold fro= m > below. > > Is there any reason for this "tradition"? I know the psychometric functio= n > should be symmetric below and above threshold! But this does not explain > the "tradition"! > > All the best from "it is almost winter" North East Italy. > m > --00000000000099e486060a668e8f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I t= hink the subject needs to feel like they're doing the job well, so star= ting easy (above threshold) makes sense.=C2=A0 And they get to know very we= ll what signal to listen for.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo= nt-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:sm= all">If you approach from below, they don't know what signal to expect,= so may not be in an "optimal detector" state of mind.</div><div = class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"g= mail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Dick</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau= lt" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote= "><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 9:19=E2=80= =AFPM Massimo Grassi <<a href=3D"mailto:massimo.grassi@xxxxxxxx">massimo= .grassi@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" = style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa= dding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear all,<div><br></div><div>I was recentl= y writing a paper about threshold estimation in hearing and at some point= =C2=A0I stopped.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Let suppose you are estimat= ing a frequency discrimination threshold with a classic 2-down 1-up stairca= se rule (Levitt, 1971). Theoretically, you could approach the threshold fro= m below or from above, I repeat this every year to 1st year students=C2=A0w= hen I teach them the method of limits! In practice, however, in psychoacous= tics we rarely-to-never approach the threshold from below.</div><div><br></= div><div>Is there any reason for this "tradition"? I know=C2=A0th= e psychometric function should be symmetric below and above threshold! But = this does not explain the "tradition"!</div><div><br></div><div>A= ll the best from "it is almost winter" North East Italy.</div><di= v>m</div></div> </blockquote></div> --00000000000099e486060a668e8f--