Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] arXiv web of trust From: Jan Schnupp <000000e042a1ec30-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 09:51:43 +0800--0000000000001e643105fc66c1f3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I guess it depends on what you mean by "publish". My group has been putting manuscripts that are pretty much ready for submission out on biorXiv for a while now. The journals we tend to target for peer reviewed publication don't mind us putting preprints out, and it can be a useful way to disseminate stuff quickly. As you all know, jumping peer review hurdles is often a slow and somewhat tedious process, particularly if some of the authors feel compelled to try to play impact factor or prestige indicator games (not many of us are in a position where we don't have to care about these things). It's good to have a preprint out while these processes grind on. In my experience, people do look at our preprints for a wide variety of reasons. Junior lab members who are looking for RA or postdoc jobs but don't have many publications out can sometimes use links to preprints to reassure a potential employer that they do know what is involved in putting a manuscript together. It may also offer some partial protection against getting scooped. But in many metrics that people may use to judge the quality of a researcher's output, preprints don't count. Scopus h-index won't include preprints, for example, and most grant funders won't consider a preprint as an output that is equivalent to a peer reviewed paper. Similarly, many Chinese University departments have firm criteria stating how many papers a candidate has to have published in journals of a given "quartile rank" before they can be considered for hire or promotion, and for this kind of purpose too, an arXiv publication will score zero. So I don't see arXiv preprints replacing peer reviewed articles in the very near future. As I see it, in our field arXiv is a kind of limbo where papers hang out while their authors take the harrowing journey through peer review purgatory so that the papers can finally be admitted to peer reviewed heaven. But while the papers hang in there, they can be useful in a variety of ways, and uploading a manuscript that's about ready to be submitted for peer review to an arXiv server is pretty straight forward. As "publications" in the sense of units of output that are commonly used by the powers that be to quantify a researcher's productivity, arXiv manuscripts are, for the time being at least, essentially worthless, but as "publications" in the sense that they can help you communicate your science in a quick and hassle free manner that is easily publically accessible, they are great . Best, Jan --------------------------------------- Prof Jan Schnupp City University of Hong Kong Dept. of Neuroscience 31 To Yuen Street, Kowloon Tong Hong Kong https://auditoryneuroscience.com http://jan.schnupp.net On Tue, 23 May 2023 at 12:15, Matt Flax <flatmax@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > Is anyone publishing on arXiv at the moment ? It seems that to publish > there they rely on a web of trust. > > There is an Audio and Speech section of arXiv which would suit our > community. > > thanks > > Matt > --0000000000001e643105fc66c1f3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I guess it=C2=A0depends on what you mean by=C2=A0&quo= t;publish".=C2=A0</div>My group has been putting manuscripts that are = pretty much ready for submission out on biorXiv for a while now. The journa= ls we tend to target for peer reviewed publication don't mind us puttin= g preprints out, and it can be a useful way to disseminate stuff quickly. A= s you all know, jumping peer review hurdles is often a slow and somewhat te= dious process, particularly if some of the authors feel compelled to try to= play impact factor or prestige indicator games (not many of us are in a po= sition where we don't have to care about these things). It's good t= o have a preprint out while these processes grind on.=C2=A0In my experience= , people do look at our preprints for a wide variety of reasons. Junior lab= members who are looking for RA or postdoc jobs but don't have many pub= lications out can sometimes use links to preprints to reassure a potential = employer that they do know what is involved in putting a manuscript=C2=A0to= gether. It may also offer some partial protection against getting scooped. = But in many metrics that people may use to judge the quality of a researche= r's output, preprints don't count. Scopus h-index won't include= preprints, for example, and most grant funders won't consider a prepri= nt as an output that is equivalent to a peer reviewed paper. Similarly, man= y Chinese University=C2=A0departments have firm criteria stating how many p= apers a candidate has to have published in journals of a given "quarti= le rank" before they can be considered for hire or promotion, and for = this kind of purpose too, an arXiv publication will score zero. So I don= 9;t=C2=A0see arXiv preprints replacing peer reviewed articles in the very n= ear future. As I see it, in our field arXiv is a kind of limbo where papers= hang out while their=C2=A0authors take=C2=A0the=C2=A0harrowing journey thr= ough peer review purgatory so that the=C2=A0papers can finally be admitted = to peer reviewed heaven. But while the papers hang in there, they can be us= eful in a variety of ways, and uploading a manuscript that's about read= y to be submitted for peer review to an arXiv server is pretty straight for= ward. As "publications" in the sense of units of output that are = commonly used by the powers that be to quantify a researcher's producti= vity, arXiv manuscripts are, for the time being at least, essentially worth= less, but=C2=A0as "publications" in the sense that they can help = you communicate your science in a quick and hassle free manner that is easi= ly publically accessible, they are great .=C2=A0<div><div><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"lt= r"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D= "ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style= =3D"font-size:12.8px">Best,</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div>= <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Jan</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">--= -------------------------------------</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">= Prof Jan Schnupp<br>City University of Hong Kong<br>Dept. of Neuroscience</= div><div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">31 To Yuen Street,=C2=A0</div><div= style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Kowloon Tong</= span></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Hong Kong</div><div style=3D"fon= t-size:12.8px"><br></div><a href=3D"https://auditoryneuroscience.com" targe= t=3D"_blank">https://auditoryneuroscience.com</a></div><div><a href=3D"http= ://jan.schnupp.net" target=3D"_blank">http://jan.schnupp.net</a></div></div= ></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br>= <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, 23= May 2023 at 12:15, Matt Flax <<a href=3D"mailto:flatmax@xxxxxxxx">fl= atmax@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"= style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p= adding-left:1ex">Is anyone publishing on arXiv at the moment ? It seems tha= t to publish <br> there they rely on a web of trust.<br> <br> There is an Audio and Speech section of arXiv which would suit our <br> community.<br> <br> thanks<br> <br> Matt<br> </blockquote></div> --0000000000001e643105fc66c1f3--