Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Recommendations on sound field speakers and soundcard From: "Richard F. Lyon" <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 21:26:18 +1100--0000000000005a8cc205f4cea159 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005a8cc105f4cea158" --0000000000005a8cc105f4cea158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Victoria, if I understand: >We plan to produce recorded speech-in-noise via 2 speakers in a small room you mean to use a speaker to play speech, simulating a talker, and another speaker in a different location to play a noise source? If so, then probably most of what Krzysztof said is relevant, but you don't need "room treatment" if the intent is to pick up the actual room effect, and you don't want to consider headphones for the same reason. But I might not understand the intent. If I got this right, then another thing to consider is the "mouth simulator" or "artificial mouth" instead of the normal speaker or monitor, to get a more natural direction of emission of the speech sound. Dick On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 9:01 PM Krzysztof Basi=C5=84ski <k.basinski@xxxxxxxx= du.pl> wrote: > Hi Victoria, > > In terms of soundcards (audio interfaces), for experimental work I really > recommend going for an pro audio interface with good quality AD/DA > converters and digitally controlled preamps. This way you can calibrate t= he > output level of a playback system and save the exact preamp setting for > later to get reproducible results. In terms of specific interfaces, you > would probably want to look at the pro audio market. I=E2=80=99d suggest = going > either for anything from RME (very high quality and great software suppor= t > but also expensive), MOTU (the UltraLite series, slightly cheaper than RM= E) > or Focusrite (Clarett series). The specific model of the interface depend= s > on your input/output needs (for talkback capability, recording participan= t > responses, multiple streams of audio, hyperscanning setups, surround > systems, etc). I would personally go for something like RME UFX II or UCX > II, if budget allows. If not, I=E2=80=99d look at Focusrite Clarett+ 2pre= . That > said, there are many great interfaces on the market right now. > > In terms of speakers, I=E2=80=99d say a decent pair of studio monitors is= the way > to go. You can look for example at Yamaha HS series for good quality that > does not break your budget. That said, if you want to use speakers you ne= ed > to think about room treatment. Depending on the size of the room and the > wall material, you would probably need to invest in absorbers, diffusers > and bass traps. This might get tricky so another approach is to use > headphones/earphones. Especially insert earphones are well suited for EEG > applications, like Etymotic ER3C. That said, you might get away with a pa= ir > of good quality closed-ear headphones if your careful. I used Beyerdynami= c > DT 770s as they are very comfortable to the participant while providing > good isolation and sound quality. > > Hope this helps. > > Best, > Chris > *--* > *Krzysztof Basi=C5=84ski, Ph.D.* > ASSISTANT PROFESSOR > > *Division of Quality of Life Research > <https://informator.gumed.edu.pl/23>Medical University of Gda=C5=84sk* > krzysztof.basinski@xxxxxxxx > zbnjz@xxxxxxxx > +48 58 349 1569 > Tuwima 15, 80-210 Gda=C5=84sk > mug.edu.pl <https://mug.edu.pl/> > farU.edu.pl/en <https://faru.edu.pl/en> > > [image: attachment.png] > > Niniejsza wiadomo=C5=9B=C4=87 oraz jej za=C5=82=C4=85czniki mog=C4=85 zaw= iera=C4=87 informacje chronione > prawem. Je=C5=9Bli Pa=C5=84stwo nie jeste=C5=9Bcie adresatem tej wiadomo= =C5=9Bci, prosimy > poinformowa=C4=87 o tym fakcie nadawc=C4=99 i usun=C4=85=C4=87 j=C4=85 wr= az z za=C5=82=C4=85cznikami. > Kopiowanie i/lub przesy=C5=82anie dalej informacji zawartych w tej wiadom= o=C5=9Bci > przez osoby do tego nieuprawnione jest zabronione. Administratorem Pa=C5= =84stwa > danych osobowych jest Gda=C5=84ski Uniwersytet Medyczny. Informacja dotyc= z=C4=85ca > przetwarzania Pa=C5=84stwa danych dost=C4=99pna jest pod adresem > gumed.edu.pl/55839.html > > This e-mail and attachments to it may include information legally > privileged. It is intended solely for the recipient. If you are not the > recipient,please inform the sender accordingly and delete the e-mail with > all attachments received. Copying and/or disseminating this e-mail and > information included in the e-mail by unauthorised individuals is strictl= y > prohibited. Your personal data is administered by Medical University of > Gda=C5=84sk. Information on personal data processing is available at > gumed.edu.pl/55839.html > > On 15 Feb 2023, at 17:38, Victoria Duda <victoria.duda@xxxxxxxx> > wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > We have an experimental setup for EEG under headphones that we would like > to modify to soundfield. Could anyone provide some suggestions on specifi= c > soundcards and speakers used in your labs? We plan to produce recorded > speech-in-noise via 2 speakers in a small room (approximately 9 x 11 ft). > > Any help would be appreciated, > Victoria > > *Victoria Duda, Ph.D., membre de l=E2=80=99OOAQ* > *Professeure-chercheure adjointe et audiologiste* > =C3=89cole d=E2=80=99orthophonie et d=E2=80=99audiologie, Facult=C3=A9 de= m=C3=A9decine > CRIR=E2=80=94IURDPM du CIUSSS CSMTL, Lucie Bruneau > Universit=C3=A9 de Montr=C3=A9al > 7077 ave. du Parc, local 3001-40 > Montr=C3=A9al, Qu=C3=A9bec H3N 1X7 > Tel: 514-343-6111, poste: 38884 > www.cat-lab.ca > > <image001.png> <image002.png> > > > --0000000000005a8cc105f4cea158 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><sp= an style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Victoria, if I understand:<br></= span><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"= font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">>We plan to produce recorded speech-in-no= ise via 2 speakers in a small room</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"= style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">yo= u mean to use a speaker to play speech, simulating a talker, and another sp= eaker in a different location to play a noise source?</span></div><div clas= s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt= " lang=3D"EN-US"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-size:small"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">If so, then pro= bably most of what Krzysztof said is relevant, but you don't need "= ;room treatment" if the intent is to pick up the actual room effect, a= nd you don't want to consider headphones for the same reason.=C2=A0 But= I might not understand the intent.</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default= " style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"><= br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><spa= n style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">If I got this right, then another= thing to consider is the "mouth simulator" or "artificial m= outh" instead of the normal speaker or monitor, to get a more natural = direction of emission of the speech sound.</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_= default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"E= N-US"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:smal= l"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Dick</span></div><div clas= s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt= " lang=3D"EN-US"><br></span></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote= "><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 9:01 PM Krz= ysztof Basi=C5=84ski <<a href=3D"mailto:k.basinski@xxxxxxxx">k.basin= ski@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" = style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa= dding-left:1ex"><div>Hi Victoria,<div><br></div><div>In terms of soundcards= (audio interfaces), for experimental work I really recommend going for an = pro audio interface with good quality AD/DA converters and digitally contro= lled preamps. This way you can calibrate the output level of a playback sys= tem and save the exact preamp setting for later to get reproducible results= . In terms of specific interfaces, you would probably want to look at the p= ro audio market. I=E2=80=99d suggest going either for anything from RME (ve= ry high quality and great software support but also expensive), MOTU (the U= ltraLite series, slightly cheaper than RME) or Focusrite (Clarett series). = The specific model of the interface depends on your input/output needs (for= talkback capability, recording participant responses, multiple streams of = audio, hyperscanning setups, surround systems, etc). I would personally go = for something like RME UFX II or UCX II, if budget allows. If not, I=E2=80= =99d look at Focusrite Clarett+ 2pre. That said, there are many great inter= faces on the market right now.</div><div><br></div><div>In terms of speaker= s, I=E2=80=99d say a decent pair of studio monitors is the way to go. You c= an look for example at Yamaha HS series for good quality that does not brea= k your budget. That said, if you want to use speakers you need to think abo= ut room treatment. Depending on the size of the room and the wall material,= you would probably need to invest in absorbers, diffusers and bass traps. = This might get tricky so another approach is to use headphones/earphones. E= specially insert earphones are well suited for EEG applications, like Etymo= tic ER3C. That said, you might get away with a pair of good quality closed-= ear headphones if your careful. I used Beyerdynamic DT 770s as they are ver= y comfortable to the participant while providing good isolation and sound q= uality.</div><div><br></div><div>Hope this helps.</div><div><br></div><div>= Best,</div><div>Chris<br><div> <div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-v= ariant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:star= t;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;t= ext-decoration:none;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color= =3D"#023f87"><b>--</b></font></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font= -size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;le= tter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;wh= ite-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><f= ont size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#023f87"><b>Krzysztof Basi=C5=84ski,= Ph.D.</b><br>ASSISTANT PROFESSOR<br><b><a href=3D"https://informator.gumed= .edu.pl/23" style=3D"color:rgb(2,63,135)" target=3D"_blank">Division of Qua= lity of Life Research</a><br>Medical University of Gda=C5=84sk</b></font><s= pan style=3D"font-family:-webkit-standard"></span><div style=3D"font-family= :-webkit-standard;margin:7px 0px"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"= #023f87"><a href=3D"mailto:krzysztof.basinski@xxxxxxxx" style=3D"color:= rgb(2,63,135)" target=3D"_blank">krzysztof.basinski@xxxxxxxx</a><br><a = href=3D"mailto:zbnjz@xxxxxxxx" style=3D"color:rgb(2,63,135)" target=3D"= _blank">zbnjz@xxxxxxxx</a><br>+48 58 349 1569<br>Tuwima 15, 80-210 Gda= =C5=84sk=C2=A0<br></font></div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#02= 3f87"><a href=3D"https://mug.edu.pl/" style=3D"color:rgb(2,63,135)" target= =3D"_blank">mug.edu.pl=C2=A0</a><br><a href=3D"https://faru.edu.pl/en" styl= e=3D"color:rgb(2,63,135)" target=3D"_blank">farU.edu.pl/en=C2=A0</a><br></f= ont><br style=3D"font-family:-webkit-standard"></div><span><img alt=3D"atta= chment.png" src=3D"cid:18659bca20b1fa6aade1"></span><span style=3D"color:rg= b(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-= spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-s= pace:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:-webkit-stand= ard">=C2=A0</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12px;font-style:n= ormal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-a= lign:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spac= ing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:-webkit-standard"><p style=3D"font= -style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:norma= l;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;w= ord-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-size:0.5em;font-family:arial;colo= r:rgb(128,128,128)">Niniejsza wiadomo=C5=9B=C4=87 oraz jej za=C5=82=C4=85cz= niki mog=C4=85 zawiera=C4=87 informacje chronione prawem. Je=C5=9Bli Pa=C5= =84stwo nie jeste=C5=9Bcie adresatem tej wiadomo=C5=9Bci, prosimy poinformo= wa=C4=87 o tym fakcie nadawc=C4=99 i usun=C4=85=C4=87 j=C4=85 wraz z za=C5= =82=C4=85cznikami. Kopiowanie i/lub przesy=C5=82anie dalej informacji zawar= tych w tej wiadomo=C5=9Bci przez osoby do tego nieuprawnione jest zabronion= e. Administratorem Pa=C5=84stwa danych osobowych jest Gda=C5=84ski Uniwersy= tet Medyczny. Informacja dotycz=C4=85ca przetwarzania Pa=C5=84stwa danych d= ost=C4=99pna jest pod adresem=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://gumed.edu.pl/55839.ht= ml" style=3D"color:rgb(128,128,128)" target=3D"_blank">gumed.edu.pl/55839.h= tml</a><br><br>This e-mail and attachments to it may include information le= gally privileged. It is intended solely for the recipient. If you are not t= he recipient,please inform the sender accordingly and delete the e-mail wit= h all attachments received. Copying and/or disseminating this e-mail and in= formation included in the e-mail by unauthorised individuals is strictly pr= ohibited. Your personal data is administered by Medical University of Gda= =C5=84sk. Information on personal data processing is available at=C2=A0<a h= ref=3D"https://gumed.edu.pl/55839.html" style=3D"color:rgb(128,128,128)" ta= rget=3D"_blank">gumed.edu.pl/55839.html</a></p> </div> <div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On 15 Feb 2023, at 17:38, Victoria = Duda <<a href=3D"mailto:victoria.duda@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">vi= ctoria.duda@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div style=3D"font-fa= mily:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;fo= nt-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-t= ransform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><di= v style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span = style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Dear colleagues,<u></u><u></u></spa= n></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-se= rif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp= an></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-s= erif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">We have an experimental= setup for EEG under headphones that we would like to modify to soundfield.= Could anyone provide some suggestions on specific soundcards and speakers = used in your labs? We plan to produce recorded speech-in-noise via 2 speake= rs in a small room (approximately 9 x 11 ft).<u></u><u></u></span></div><di= v style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span = style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><d= iv style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span= style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Any help would be appreciated,<u><= /u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:= Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Victoria = =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;fo= nt-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"= ><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;f= ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif;text-align:justify"><b><span style=3D"font-si= ze:11pt">Victoria Duda, Ph.D., membre de l=E2=80=99OOAQ</span></b><span sty= le=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;f= ont-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;text-align:justify"><i><span s= tyle=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Profe= sseure-chercheure adjointe et audiologiste</span></i><span style=3D"font-si= ze:11pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u><u></u></span= ></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser= if;text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:"Time= s New Roman",serif">=C3=89cole d=E2=80=99orthophonie et d=E2=80=99audi= ologie, Facult=C3=A9 de m=C3=A9decine<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style= =3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;text-align:jus= tify"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"= ,serif">CRIR=E2=80=94IURDPM du CIUSSS CSMTL, Lucie Bruneau<u></u><u></u></s= pan></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-= serif;text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:"T= imes New Roman",serif">Universit=C3=A9 de Montr=C3=A9al<u></u><u></u><= /span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,san= s-serif;text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:"= ;Times New Roman",serif">7077 ave. du Parc, local 3001-40<u></u><u></u= ></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,s= ans-serif;text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&qu= ot;Times New Roman",serif">Montr=C3=A9al, Qu=C3=A9bec H3N 1X7<u></u><u= ></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calib= ri,sans-serif;text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family= :"Times New Roman",serif">Tel: 514-343-6111, poste: 38884<u></u><= u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cali= bri,sans-serif;text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-famil= y:"Times New Roman",serif" lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://www.c= at-lab.ca/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(5,99,193)" lang=3D"F= R-CA">www.cat-lab.ca</span></a></span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa= mily:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div sty= le=3D"margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;text-align:j= ustify"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:"Times New Roman&quo= t;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm;font-si= ze:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;text-align:justify"><span style=3D"f= ont-size:11pt"><span id=3D"m_9014743615038408953cid:image001.png@xxxxxxxx= 6A985D0"><image001.png></span></span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;fo= nt-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><span id=3D"m_90= 14743615038408953cid:image002.png@xxxxxxxx"><image002.png></= span></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquo= te></div> 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