Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Long/Low & Short/High? From: David McAlpine <david.mcalpine@xxxxxxxx> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2022 05:18:09 +0000--_000_SYBPR01MB7019A1F43F1DF221FF2A2A81C73C9SYBPR01MB7019ausp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (Off the top of my head, so here goes) From a purely information processing= perspective, with a brain 'normalisation' chaser, these are relatively low= frequencies where phase-locking is a 'thing'. Purely in terms of accumulat= ing information about the signals (I'm guessing 'the brain' doesn't know or= care about your task), the same number of spikes would take longer to accu= mulate for a lower frequency (fewer cycles, fewer spikes, therefore less 'i= nformation'). just a hunch but move into the non-phase locking region above= 4 kHz (for those who can still hear!) and see what happens. ________________________________ From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx>= on behalf of Lori Holt <lholt@xxxxxxxx> Sent: 02 November 2022 07:00 To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> Subject: [AUDITORY] Long/Low & Short/High? Dear auditory aficionados, Fred Dick and I have been doing some work with a long-short tone duration i= dentification task (50ms vs 90ms) where tone frequency is chosen from one o= f x values in a truncated range (e.g., 800Hz, 920Hz, 1000Hz, 1080Hz, 1200Hz= ). (You might be familiar with this paradigm from Mondor & Bregman, 1994). We have found a weak but quite reliable effect, where subjects tend to judg= e lower frequencies more often as 'long', and higher frequencies as 'short'= . This was unexpected yet remarkably consistent across a lot of experiment= s. We have been unable to track down mention of this in the literature. We did dig up a few papers that purported to be on the general topic of fre= quency effects on duration judgments, but these ended up being about differ= ent things entirely... We wondered whether anyone might be familiar with literature we've missed- = or maybe even have encountered something like this before yourself? Best wishes, Lori & Fred ______________________________________________________________ loriholt Professor | Department of Psychology Professor | Neuroscience Institute Co-Director | Center for the Neural Basis of Cognition Co-Director | Behavioral Brain (B2) Research Training Program (NIGMS) Carnegie Mellon University loriholt@xxxxxxxx<mailto:loriholt@xxxxxxxx> | www.psy.cmu.edu/~holtlab/<http:= //www.psy.cmu.edu/~holtlab> pronouns: she, her, hers --_000_SYBPR01MB7019A1F43F1DF221FF2A2A81C73C9SYBPR01MB7019ausp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo= ttom:0;} </style> </head> <body dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size= : 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class= =3D"elementToProof"> (Off the top of my head, so here goes) From a purely information processing= perspective, with a brain 'normalisation' chaser, these are relatively low= frequencies where phase-locking is a 'thing'. Purely in terms of accumulat= ing information about the signals (I'm guessing 'the brain' doesn't know or care about your task), the same = number of spikes would take longer to accumulate for a lower frequency (few= er cycles, fewer spikes, therefore less 'information'). just a hunch but mo= ve into the non-phase locking region above 4 kHz (for those who can still hear!) and see what happens.</div> <div id=3D"appendonsend"></div> <hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1"> <div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st= yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> AUDITORY - Research i= n Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> on behalf of Lori Ho= lt <lholt@xxxxxxxx><br> <b>Sent:</b> 02 November 2022 07:00<br> <b>To:</b> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx><br> <b>Subject:</b> [AUDITORY] Long/Low & Short/High?</font> <div> </div> </div> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br= clear=3D"all"> </div> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signat= ure"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Dea= r auditory aficionados,</div> <div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br= > </div> <div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> <div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">F<span= class=3D"x_gmail_default">red Dick</span> and I have been doing some work = w<span class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><= /span>ith a long-short tone duration identification task (50ms vs 90ms) where tone frequency is chosen from one of x values in= a truncated range (e.g., 800Hz, 920Hz, 1000Hz, 1080Hz, 1200Hz).  = ;(You might be familiar with this paradigm from Mondor & Bregman, 1994)= . </span></font></div> <div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"></span= ></font></div> <div> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-family= :verdana,sans-serif"><br> We have found a weak but quite reliable effect, where subjects tend to judg= e lower frequencies more often as 'long', and higher frequencies as 'short'= . This was unexpected yet remarkably consistent across a lot of exper= iments. We have been unable to track down<span class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-seri= f"> </span> mention of this in the literature. <br> <br> We did dig up a few papers that purported to be on the general topic of fre= quency effects on duration judgments, but these ended up being about differ= ent things entirely... <br> <br> <span class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We= wondered whether</span> anyone might be familiar with literature we've mis= sed- or maybe even have encountered something like this before yourself?&nb= sp; <br> </span></font></div> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-family= :verdana,sans-serif"><br> </span></font></div> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-family= :verdana,sans-serif"><span class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:v= erdana,sans-serif">Best wishes,</span></span></font></div> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-family= :verdana,sans-serif"><span class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:v= erdana,sans-serif">Lori & Fred</span></span></font></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <br> </div> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br> </div> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">___________________________________________= ___________________</div> <span style=3D"font-family:"arial black",sans-serif; font-size:la= rge"><font color=3D"#999999">lori</font></span><span style=3D"font-family:&= quot;arial black",sans-serif; font-size:large"><font color=3D"#444444"= >holt</font></span> <div> <div style=3D"font-size:small"><font color=3D"#999999"><font face=3D"tahoma= , sans-serif">Professor </font></font><font color=3D"#999999"><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif"><fo= nt color=3D"#999999"><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">| </span></font>Department of Psychology</font></font></div> <div style=3D"font-size:small"><font color=3D"#999999"><span style=3D"font-= family:tahoma,sans-serif">Professor | Neuroscience Instit= ute <br> </span></font></div> <div style=3D"font-size:small"><font color=3D"#999999"><span style=3D"font-= family:tahoma,sans-serif">Co-Director | Center for the Neural Basis of Cogn= ition<br> </span></font></div> <div style=3D"font-size:small"><font color=3D"#999999"><span style=3D"font-= family:tahoma,sans-serif">Co-Director | Behavioral Brain (B2) Research Trai= ning Program (NIGMS)<br> </span></font></div> <div style=3D"font-size:small"><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif" color=3D"#= 999999">Carnegie Mellon University</font></div> <div style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(102,102,102)"><font= face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif"><a href=3D"mailto:loriholt@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"= _blank">loriholt@xxxxxxxx</a> | </font><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-= serif"><a href=3D"http://www.psy.cmu.edu/~holtlab" target=3D"_blank">www.ps= y.cmu.edu/~holtlab/</a></font></span></div> </div> <font color=3D"#999999"><font size=3D"1">pronouns: she, her, hers</font></f= ont> <div><br> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_SYBPR01MB7019A1F43F1DF221FF2A2A81C73C9SYBPR01MB7019ausp_--