Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Long/Low & Short/High? From: Neeraj Sharma <neerajww@xxxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 09:57:14 +0530--000000000000dc6e7505ec895f88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Lori & Fred, Thank you for sharing this interesting observation. I am not sure if the following helps but putting it here as I found some links. A paper by Dawson et al. - "The influence of fundamental frequency on perceived duration in spectrally comparable sounds" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5582609/pdf/peerj-05-3734.pdf found something interesting too, that is, sounds with higher fundamental frequency are judged as longer in duration. The paradigm in that paper appears different from your setting though - signal is a harmonic signal, the average duration of stimulus is 300 msec, and the task is a two 2-alternative forced choice. Best regards, Neeraj On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 9:38 AM Roni Granot <roni.granot@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > Zohar Eitan and Hila Tamir-Ostrover showed something similar in a very > different paradigm: > > Tamir-Ostrover, H., & Eitan, Z. (2015). Higher is faster: Pitch register > and tempo preferences. *Music Perception: An Interdisciplinary Journal*, > *33*(2), 179-198. > > > > > > *Roni Granot * > *Department of Musicology * > The Hebrew University of Jerusalem > T +972.2.5883953 | F +972.2.5883944 | Roni.Granot@xxxxxxxx > > *https://scholars.huji.ac.il/ronigranot > <https://scholars.huji.ac.il/ronigranot>* > > > > > > > =E2=80=AB=D7=91=D7=AA=D7=90=D7=A8=D7=99=D7=9A =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=93= =D7=B3, 2 =D7=91=D7=A0=D7=95=D7=91=D7=B3 2022 =D7=91-6:11 =D7=9E=D7=90=D7= =AA =E2=80=AALori Holt=E2=80=AC=E2=80=8F <=E2=80=AA > lholt@xxxxxxxx=E2=80=AC=E2=80=8F>:=E2=80=AC > >> >> Dear auditory aficionados, >> >> Fred Dick and I have been doing some work with a long-short tone >> duration identification task (50ms vs 90ms) where tone frequency is chos= en >> from one of x values in a truncated range (e.g., 800Hz, 920Hz, 1000Hz, >> 1080Hz, 1200Hz). (You might be familiar with this paradigm from Mondor = & >> Bregman, 1994). >> >> We have found a weak but quite reliable effect, where subjects tend to >> judge lower frequencies more often as 'long', and higher frequencies as >> 'short'. This was unexpected yet remarkably consistent across a lot of >> experiments. We have been unable to track down mention of this in the >> literature. >> >> We did dig up a few papers that purported to be on the general topic of >> frequency effects on duration judgments, but these ended up being about >> different things entirely... >> >> We wondered whether anyone might be familiar with literature we've >> missed- or maybe even have encountered something like this before >> yourself? >> >> Best wishes, >> Lori & Fred >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> loriholt >> Professor | Department of Psychology >> Professor | Neuroscience Institute >> Co-Director | Center for the Neural Basis of Cognition >> Co-Director | Behavioral Brain (B2) Research Training Program (NIGMS) >> Carnegie Mellon University >> loriholt@xxxxxxxx | www.psy.cmu.edu/~holtlab/ >> pronouns: she, her, hers >> >> --000000000000dc6e7505ec895f88 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Dear Lori & Fred,=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>= Thank=C2=A0you for sharing this interesting observation.</div><div><br></di= v>I am not sure if the=C2=A0following helps but putting it here as I found = some links.<div>A paper by Dawson et al. - "The influence of fundament= al frequency on perceived duration in spectrally comparable sounds" <a= href=3D"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5582609/pdf/peerj-05-= 3734.pdf">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5582609/pdf/peerj-05= -3734.pdf</a>=C2=A0 found something interesting too, that is, sounds with h= igher fundamental frequency are judged as longer in duration. The paradigm = in that paper appears different from your setting though - signal is a harm= onic signal, the average duration of stimulus is 300 msec, and the task is = a two 2-alternative forced choice.<div><br><div>Best regards,</div><div>Nee= raj</div></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 9:38 AM Roni Granot <<a href= =3D"mailto:roni.granot@xxxxxxxx">roni.granot@xxxxxxxx</a>>= wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px = 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir= =3D"rtl"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-seri= f" dir=3D"ltr">Zohar Eitan and Hila Tamir-Ostrover showed something similar= in a very different paradigm:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f= ont-family:tahoma,sans-serif" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_def= ault" style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"fon= t-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-= serif;font-size:13px">Tamir-Ostrover, H., & Eitan, Z. (2015). Higher is= faster: Pitch register and tempo preferences.=C2=A0</span><i style=3D"font= -family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Music Perception: An Interdiscipli= nary Journal</i><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"= >,=C2=A0</span><i style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">33<= /i><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">(2), 179-198= .</span></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span s= tyle=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div = style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;direction:rtl"><span style= =3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><br></div= ><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><= div dir=3D"ltr"><div align=3D"left" dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"f= ont-size:12.8px"><div><b style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><span style=3D"font-siz= e:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</span></b>= </div><div align=3D"left" dir=3D"ltr"><table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"= cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"border-collapse:collapse"><tbody><tr><td width= =3D"85" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:63.55pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt"><p dir=3D"= LTR" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt;direction:ltr"></p></td><td width=3D"4= 68" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:351.25pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt"><p dir=3D"LTR= " style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt;direction:ltr"><b><span style=3D"font-siz= e:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Roni Granot </span></b><span style=3D"= font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"HE"= dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></sp= an><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Departmen= t of Musicology=C2=A0</span></b><span lang=3D"HE" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"font= -size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span><span style=3D"font-siz= e:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">The Hebrew University of Jerusalem</sp= an><span lang=3D"HE" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,= sans-serif"><br></span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif">T +972.2.5883953 | F +972.2.5883944 |=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:Roni.G= ranot@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">Roni.Granot@xxxxxxxx</a></s= pan></p><p dir=3D"LTR" style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt;direction:ltr"><font= color=3D"#0000ee" face=3D"Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3= 333px"><u><a href=3D"https://scholars.huji.ac.il/ronigranot" target=3D"_bla= nk">https://scholars.huji.ac.il/ronigranot</a></u></span></font><span style= =3D"font-size:12.8px">=C2=A0</span><br></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div>= <div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">=C2=A0</span><b style=3D"font-size:12= .8px"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</span></b></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><p style=3D"margin-bottom:0.0001pt;direction:l= tr">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0<br><br></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br= ></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"rtl" class=3D"gmail_attr"= >=E2=80=AB=D7=91=D7=AA=D7=90=D7=A8=D7=99=D7=9A =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=93=D7= =B3, 2 =D7=91=D7=A0=D7=95=D7=91=D7=B3 2022 =D7=91-6:11 =D7=9E=D7=90=D7=AA = =E2=80=AALori Holt=E2=80=AC=E2=80=8F <=E2=80=AA<a href=3D"mailto:lholt@xxxxxxxx= ndrew.cmu.edu" target=3D"_blank">lholt@xxxxxxxx</a>=E2=80=AC=E2=80=8F= >:=E2=80=AC<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0= px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><= div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,s= ans-serif"><br clear=3D"all"></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><= div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif= " class=3D"gmail_default">Dear auditory aficionados,</div><div style=3D"fon= t-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=3D"gmail_default"><br></div><div style= =3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=3D"gmail_default"><div><font size= =3D"2"><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">F<span class=3D"gmail= _default">red Dick</span> and I have been doing some work w<span class=3D"g= mail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"></span>ith a long-sh= ort tone duration=20 identification task (50ms vs 90ms) where tone frequency is chosen from=20 one of x values in a truncated range (e.g., 800Hz, 920Hz, 1000Hz,=20 1080Hz, 1200Hz).=C2=A0=C2=A0(You might be familiar with this paradigm from Mondor & Bregman, 1994).=C2=A0</span></font></div><div><= font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"></span></fon= t></div><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-size= :12.8px"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> <br> We have found a weak but quite reliable effect, where subjects tend to=20 judge lower frequencies more often as 'long', and higher frequencie= s as=20 'short'.=C2=A0 This was unexpected yet remarkably consistent=20 across a lot of experiments. We have been=20 unable to track down<span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verd= ana,sans-serif"> </span>mention of this in the literature.=C2=A0 =C2=A0<br> <br> We did dig up a few papers that purported to be on the general topic of=20 frequency effects on duration judgments, but these ended up being about=20 different things entirely...=C2=A0<br> <br> <span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We w= ondered whether</span> anyone might be familiar with=20 literature we've missed- or maybe even have encountered something like= =20 this before yourself?=C2=A0 <br></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-size= :12.8px"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b= r></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font size=3D"2"><spa= n style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span class=3D"gmail_default" st= yle=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Best wishes,</span></span></font></d= iv><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-fam= ily:verdana,sans-serif"><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:= verdana,sans-serif">Lori & Fred</span></span></font></div></div></div><= /div></div></div><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div s= tyle=3D"font-size:12.8px">_________________________________________________= _____________</div><span style=3D"font-family:"arial black",sans-= serif;font-size:large"><font color=3D"#999999">lori</font></span><span styl= e=3D"font-family:"arial black",sans-serif;font-size:large"><font = color=3D"#444444">holt</font></span><div><div style=3D"font-size:small"><fo= nt color=3D"#999999"><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif">Professor=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 </font></font><font color=3D"#999999"><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-= serif"><font color=3D"#999999"><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif= ">| </span></font>Department of Psychology</font></font></div><div style=3D= "font-size:small"><font color=3D"#999999"><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma= ,sans-serif">Professor=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | Neuroscience Institute <br></spa= n></font></div><div style=3D"font-size:small"><font color=3D"#999999"><span= style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Co-Director | Center for the Neura= l Basis of Cognition<br></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-size:small">= <font color=3D"#999999"><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Co-Di= rector | Behavioral Brain (B2) Research Training Program (NIGMS)<br></span>= </font></div><div style=3D"font-size:small"><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-seri= f" color=3D"#999999">Carnegie Mellon University</font></div><div style=3D"f= ont-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(102,102,102)"><font face=3D"tahoma= , sans-serif"><a href=3D"mailto:loriholt@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">lorihol= t@xxxxxxxx</a>=C2=A0|=C2=A0</font><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif"><a href= =3D"http://www.psy.cmu.edu/~holtlab/" target=3D"_blank">www.psy.cmu.edu/~ho= ltlab/</a></font></span></div></div><font color=3D"#999999"><font size=3D"1= ">pronouns: she, her, hers</font></font><div><br></div></div></div></div></= div> </blockquote></div> </blockquote></div> --000000000000dc6e7505ec895f88--