Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Long/Low & Short/High? From: Justin London <000000aef06ea760-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2022 07:25:48 -0500--Apple-Mail=_377CB9DF-A5E5-4617-B3B7-04636C90B9DB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear Lori, In music perception research there have been studies of the effect of = pitch/pitch register on tempo perception, e.g., Tamir-Ostrover & Eitan = (2015) https://doi.org/10.1525/mp.2015.33.2.179 = <https://doi.org/10.1525/mp.2015.33.2.179>, as well as Terhardt=E2=80=99s = early article: Terhardt, E. Psychoacoustic evaluation of musical sounds. = Perception & Psychophysics 23, 483=E2=80=93492 (1978). = https://doi.org/10.3758/BF03199523 <https://doi.org/10.3758/BF03199523>. I note, however, that most of the durations and tempos studied in the = music tempo/duration perception literature are at least an order of = magnitude longer/slower than the 50-90ms durations used in the studies = you describe. All best, Justin London Andrew W. Mellon Professor of Music, Cognitive Science, and the = Humanities Carleton College, Northfield MN USA jlondon@xxxxxxxx On Nov 1, 2022, at 3:00 PM, Lori Holt <lholt@xxxxxxxx> wrote: Dear auditory aficionados, Fred Dick and I have been doing some work with a long-short tone = duration identification task (50ms vs 90ms) where tone frequency is = chosen from one of x values in a truncated range (e.g., 800Hz, 920Hz, = 1000Hz, 1080Hz, 1200Hz). (You might be familiar with this paradigm from = Mondor & Bregman, 1994).=20 We have found a weak but quite reliable effect, where subjects tend to = judge lower frequencies more often as 'long', and higher frequencies as = 'short'. This was unexpected yet remarkably consistent across a lot of = experiments. We have been unable to track down mention of this in the = literature. =20 We did dig up a few papers that purported to be on the general topic of = frequency effects on duration judgments, but these ended up being about = different things entirely...=20 We wondered whether anyone might be familiar with literature we've = missed- or maybe even have encountered something like this before = yourself? =20 Best wishes, Lori & Fred ______________________________________________________________ loriholt Professor | Department of Psychology Professor | Neuroscience Institute=20 Co-Director | Center for the Neural Basis of Cognition Co-Director | Behavioral Brain (B2) Research Training Program (NIGMS) Carnegie Mellon University loriholt@xxxxxxxx <mailto:loriholt@xxxxxxxx> | www.psy.cmu.edu/~holtlab/ = <http://www.psy.cmu.edu/~holtlab/>pronouns: she, her, hers --Apple-Mail=_377CB9DF-A5E5-4617-B3B7-04636C90B9DB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Dear = Lori,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">In music = perception research there have been studies of the effect of pitch/pitch = register on tempo perception, e.g., Tamir-Ostrover & Eitan = (2015) <a href=3D"https://doi.org/10.1525/mp.2015.33.2.179" = class=3D"">https://doi.org/10.1525/mp.2015.33.2.179</a>, as well as = Terhardt=E2=80=99s early article: <span style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, = 51); font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; = background-color: rgb(252, 252, 252); text-decoration-thickness: = initial;" class=3D"">Terhardt, E. Psychoacoustic evaluation of musical = sounds. </span><i style=3D"box-sizing: inherit; color: rgb(51, 51, = 51); font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; = background-color: rgb(252, 252, 252); text-decoration-thickness: = initial;" class=3D"">Perception & Psychophysics</i><span = style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-variant-ligatures: normal; = orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(252, 252, 252); = text-decoration-thickness: initial;" class=3D""> </span><span = style=3D"box-sizing: inherit; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); = font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: = rgb(252, 252, 252); text-decoration-thickness: initial;" = class=3D"">23</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); = font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: = rgb(252, 252, 252); text-decoration-thickness: initial;" class=3D"">, = 483=E2=80=93492 (1978). <a href=3D"https://doi.org/10.3758/BF03199523" = class=3D"">https://doi.org/10.3758/BF03199523</a>.</span></div><div = class=3D""><div style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><font = color=3D"#333333" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(51, 51, = 51); background-color: rgb(252, 252, 252);" class=3D""><br = class=3D""></span></font></div><div style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" = class=3D""><font color=3D"#333333" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(252, 252, 252);" class=3D"">I = note, however, that most of the durations and tempos studied in the = music tempo/duration perception literature are at least an order of = magnitude longer/slower than the 50-90ms durations used in the studies = you describe.</span></font></div><div style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" = class=3D""><font color=3D"#333333" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(252, 252, 252);" class=3D""><br = class=3D""></span></font></div><div style=3D"orphans: 2; widows: 2;" = class=3D""><font color=3D"#333333" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(252, 252, 252);" class=3D"">All = best,</span></font></div><div class=3D""> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, = 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D""><div>Justin London</div><div>Andrew W. Mellon Professor of = Music, Cognitive Science, and the Humanities</div><div>Carleton College, = Northfield MN USA</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:jlondon@xxxxxxxx" = class=3D"">jlondon@xxxxxxxx</a></div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Nov 1, 2022, at 3:00 PM, Lori = Holt <<a href=3D"mailto:lholt@xxxxxxxx" = class=3D"">lholt@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_default" = style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br clear=3D"all" = class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div = dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""><div = style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=3D"gmail_default">Dear = auditory aficionados,</div><div style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif" = class=3D"gmail_default"><br class=3D""></div><div = style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=3D"gmail_default"><div = class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D""><span = style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=3D"">F<span = class=3D"gmail_default">red Dick</span> and I have been doing some work = w<span class=3D"gmail_default" = style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"></span>ith a long-short tone = duration=20 identification task (50ms vs 90ms) where tone frequency is chosen from=20= one of x values in a truncated range (e.g., 800Hz, 920Hz, 1000Hz,=20 1080Hz, 1200Hz). (You might be familiar with this paradigm from Mondor & Bregman, = 1994). </span></font></div><div class=3D""><font size=3D"2" = class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif" = class=3D""></span></font></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div = dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div = style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D""><span = style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=3D""> <br class=3D""> We have found a weak but quite reliable effect, where subjects tend to=20= judge lower frequencies more often as 'long', and higher frequencies as=20= 'short'. This was unexpected yet remarkably consistent=20 across a lot of experiments. We have been=20 unable to track down<span class=3D"gmail_default" = style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> </span>mention of this in the = literature. <br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> We did dig up a few papers that purported to be on the general topic of=20= frequency effects on duration judgments, but these ended up being about=20= different things entirely... <br class=3D""> <br class=3D""> <span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We = wondered whether</span> anyone might be familiar with=20 literature we've missed- or maybe even have encountered something like=20= this before yourself? <br class=3D""></span></font></div><div = style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D""><span = style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=3D""><br = class=3D""></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px" = class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D""><span = style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=3D""><span = class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Best = wishes,</span></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px" = class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D""><span = style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=3D""><span = class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Lori = & Fred</span></span></font></div></div></div></div></div></div><br = class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px" = class=3D"">______________________________________________________________<= /div><span style=3D"font-family:"arial = black",sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D""><font color=3D"#999999"= class=3D"">lori</font></span><span style=3D"font-family:"arial = black",sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D""><font color=3D"#444444"= class=3D"">holt</font></span><div class=3D""><div = style=3D"font-size:small" class=3D""><font color=3D"#999999" = class=3D""><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif" = class=3D"">Professor </font></font><font = color=3D"#999999" class=3D""><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif" = class=3D""><font color=3D"#999999" class=3D""><span = style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" class=3D"">| = </span></font>Department of Psychology</font></font></div><div = style=3D"font-size:small" class=3D""><font color=3D"#999999" = class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" = class=3D"">Professor | Neuroscience Institute <br = class=3D""></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-size:small" = class=3D""><font color=3D"#999999" class=3D""><span = style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" class=3D"">Co-Director | Center = for the Neural Basis of Cognition<br class=3D""></span></font></div><div = style=3D"font-size:small" class=3D""><font color=3D"#999999" = class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" = class=3D"">Co-Director | Behavioral Brain (B2) Research Training Program = (NIGMS)<br class=3D""></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-size:small" = class=3D""><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif" color=3D"#999999" = class=3D"">Carnegie Mellon University</font></div><div = style=3D"font-size:small" class=3D""><span = style=3D"color:rgb(102,102,102)" class=3D""><font face=3D"tahoma, = sans-serif" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:loriholt@xxxxxxxx" = target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">loriholt@xxxxxxxx</a> | </font><font= face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif" class=3D""><a = href=3D"http://www.psy.cmu.edu/~holtlab/" target=3D"_blank" = class=3D"">www.psy.cmu.edu/~holtlab/</a></font></span></div></div><font = color=3D"#999999" class=3D""><font size=3D"1" class=3D"">pronouns: she, = her, hers</font></font><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div></div></div></div></div> </div></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_377CB9DF-A5E5-4617-B3B7-04636C90B9DB--