Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Finding from Greenwood, 1961 From: "Richard F. Lyon" <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 08:41:17 -0800--00000000000044cf4305d0358c97 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don was living in Hayward, California, in '07. We had some emails about ear club and Stanford talks and other stuff, and I saw him around a few times that year, and he sent me a bunch of papers, including some unpublished, in October of '07. But he didn't respond to my November emails. Is that when he moved north? Dick On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 8:04 AM PIerre DIVENYI <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > It was decades ago that I last heard from Don. He moved to northern > Washington in order to be close to British Columbia from where he derived > his ridiculously low retirement. I would be surprised if he were still wi= th > us, were he, he would be close to 100. He was a miscast at the UBC Dept. = of > Speech and Hearing entirely focused on turning out hordes of speech > pathologists. In any case, he is/was one of the auditory scientist to who= se > views I always listened. He also had the gift of being able > to clearly explain complex ideas. > > Pierre > > Sent from my autocorrecting iPad > > On Nov 7, 2021, at 00:08, Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > =EF=BB=BF > The last time I pinged Don Greenwood at <ddg@xxxxxxxx> I got a bounce. > Does anyone know if he's still with us? It would be interesting to get h= is > comments on this question. > > I would address the question in terms of the change of bandwidth with > level through that middle region, and see if the described result > is explainable by level-dependent auditory filter models. > > Dick > > > > On Sat, Nov 6, 2021 at 9:28 PM Hornsby, Benjamin Wade Young < > ben.hornsby@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I am hoping to pick the brains of those more knowledgeable about this >> than I am. I am reading some classic masking papers with a doctoral stud= ent >> and we have a question about a finding reported by Greenwood (1961). >> >> >> >> Greenwood, D. D. (1961). Auditory masking and the critical band. *The >> journal of the acoustical society of America*, *33*(4), 484-502. >> >> >> https://asa.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1121/1.1908699?casa_token=3D5nyI-2I= WfCUAAAAA:F_c_w65ZXWcIQE4SDr-qrEcGTLJ9QUtRChx4B2t4rOAdEv8_PJ3wKhHxvfNCaOwJ0= EjucY_H0J3roQ >> >> >> >> In this paper Greenwood examined critical bandwidths using a band >> widening masking paradigms to measure =E2=80=9Cmasked audiograms=E2=80= =9D as he >> systematically widened the bandwidth of a masking noise. In one experim= ent >> he looked at growth of masking for his masked audiograms by systematical= ly >> increasing the spectrum level (and overall level) of the various noise >> bands. He did this for noise bands that were narrower and wider than the >> critical bandwidth. >> >> >> >> For noise bandwidths that were *greater* than the critical band he >> showed a linear growth of masking for tones centered in the noise band >> (i.e., linear in band masking). However, when the noise bandwidth was >> *less* than the critical bandwidth, growth of masking showed a =E2=80=9C= jog=E2=80=9D in >> the growth of masking function for tones centered in the narrow noise ba= nd. >> That is masked threshold appeared to decrease (~3 dB) as noise power >> increased when the level of the noise reached what he called a =E2=80=9C= transition >> level=E2=80=9D of around 50 dB sensation level. However, as levels incre= ased above >> this =E2=80=9Ctransition=E2=80=9D level, growth of masking again seemed = linear. Figure 6 on >> p. 493 of the paper shows the finding I am talking about. >> >> >> >> It would not be the first time I misinterpreted an older (and newer) >> paper so I am probably just missing something. However, I was not famili= ar >> with this finding and wondered if others were aware of it and had though= ts >> on why it occurred. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Ben >> > --00000000000044cf4305d0358c97 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Don= was living in Hayward, California, in '07.=C2=A0 We had some emails ab= out ear club and Stanford talks and other stuff, and I saw him around a few= times that year, and he sent me a bunch of papers, including some unpublis= hed, in October of '07.=C2=A0 But he didn't respond to my November = emails.=C2=A0 Is that when he moved north?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default= " style=3D"font-size:small">Dick</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D= "font-size:small"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir= =3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 8:04 AM PIerre DIVENYI= <<a href=3D"mailto:pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx">pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx= .edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar= gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1= ex"><div dir=3D"auto">It was decades ago that I last heard from Don. He mov= ed to northern Washington in order to be close to British Columbia from whe= re he derived his ridiculously low retirement. I would be surprised if he w= ere still with us, were he, he would be close to 100. He was a miscast at t= he UBC Dept. of Speech and Hearing entirely focused on turning out hordes o= f speech pathologists. In any case, he is/was one of the auditory scientist= to whose views I always listened. He also had the gift of being able to=C2= =A0clearly=C2=A0explain complex ideas.<div><br></div><div>Pierre<br><br><di= v dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my autocorrecting iPad</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><b= lockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 7, 2021, at 00:08, Richard F. Lyon <<a hr= ef=3D"mailto:dicklyon@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">dicklyon@xxxxxxxx</a>> w= rote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">= =EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:s= mall">The last time I pinged Don Greenwood at <<a href=3D"mailto:ddg@xxxxxxxx= eze.com" target=3D"_blank">ddg@xxxxxxxx</a>> I got a bounce.=C2=A0 Doe= s anyone know if he's still with us?=C2=A0 It would be interesting to g= et his comments on this question.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style= =3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-s= ize:small">I would address the question in terms of the change of bandwidth= with level through that middle region, and see if the=C2=A0described resul= t is=C2=A0explainable=C2=A0by level-dependent auditory filter models.</div>= <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class= =3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Dick</div><div class=3D"gmail_= default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div cl= ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></div><br><div cl= ass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Nov 6, 20= 21 at 9:28 PM Hornsby, Benjamin Wade Young <<a href=3D"mailto:ben.hornsb= y@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">ben.hornsby@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br></div>= <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-= left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div lang=3D"EN-US"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi All,<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am hoping to pick the brains of those more knowled= geable about this than I am. I am reading some classic masking papers with = a doctoral student and we have a question about a finding reported by Green= wood (1961). <u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:rgb(34,34,34);background:white"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans= -serif;color:rgb(34,34,34);background:white">Greenwood, D. D. (1961). Audit= ory masking and the critical band.=C2=A0<i>The journal of the acoustical so= ciety of America</i>,=C2=A0<i>33</i>(4), 484-502.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://asa.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1121= /1.1908699?casa_token=3D5nyI-2IWfCUAAAAA:F_c_w65ZXWcIQE4SDr-qrEcGTLJ9QUtRCh= x4B2t4rOAdEv8_PJ3wKhHxvfNCaOwJ0EjucY_H0J3roQ" target=3D"_blank">https://asa= .scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1121/1.1908699?casa_token=3D5nyI-2IWfCUAAAAA:F_c_= w65ZXWcIQE4SDr-qrEcGTLJ9QUtRChx4B2t4rOAdEv8_PJ3wKhHxvfNCaOwJ0EjucY_H0J3roQ<= /a><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">In this paper Greenwood examined critical bandwidths= using a band widening masking paradigms to measure =E2=80=9Cmasked audiogr= ams=E2=80=9D as he systematically widened the bandwidth of a masking noise.= =C2=A0 In one experiment he looked at growth of masking for his masked audiograms by systematically increasing the spectrum level = (and overall level) of the various noise bands. He did this for noise bands= that were narrower and wider than the critical bandwidth.<u></u><u></u></p= > <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">For noise bandwidths that were <b>greater</b> than t= he critical band he showed a linear growth of masking for tones centered in= the noise band (i.e., linear in band masking). However, when the noise ban= dwidth was <b>less</b> than the critical bandwidth, growth of masking showed a =E2=80= =9Cjog=E2=80=9D in the growth of masking function for tones centered in the= narrow noise band. That is masked threshold appeared to decrease (~3 dB) a= s noise power increased when the level of the noise reached what he called a =E2=80=9Ctransition level=E2=80=9D of around 50 d= B sensation level. However, as levels increased above this =E2=80=9Ctransit= ion=E2=80=9D level, growth of masking again seemed linear. Figure 6 on p. 4= 93 of the paper shows the finding I am talking about.<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">It would not be the first time I misinterpreted an o= lder (and newer) paper so I am probably just missing something. However, I = was not familiar with this finding and wondered if others were aware of it = and had thoughts on why it occurred. <u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ben<u></u><u></u></p> </div> </div> </blockquote></div> </div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div> --00000000000044cf4305d0358c97--