Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Finding from Greenwood, 1961 From: PIerre DIVENYI <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 08:04:41 -0800--Apple-Mail-A50E8A33-882D-40DF-B213-239A972410C2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was decades ago that I last heard from Don. He moved to northern Washingt= on in order to be close to British Columbia from where he derived his ridicu= lously low retirement. I would be surprised if he were still with us, were h= e, he would be close to 100. He was a miscast at the UBC Dept. of Speech and= Hearing entirely focused on turning out hordes of speech pathologists. In a= ny case, he is/was one of the auditory scientist to whose views I always lis= tened. He also had the gift of being able to clearly explain complex ideas. Pierre Sent from my autocorrecting iPad > On Nov 7, 2021, at 00:08, Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > The last time I pinged Don Greenwood at <ddg@xxxxxxxx> I got a bounce. D= oes anyone know if he's still with us? It would be interesting to get his c= omments on this question. >=20 > I would address the question in terms of the change of bandwidth with leve= l through that middle region, and see if the described result is explainable= by level-dependent auditory filter models. >=20 > Dick >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Sat, Nov 6, 2021 at 9:28 PM Hornsby, Benjamin Wade Young <ben.hornsby@xxxxxxxx= vumc.org> wrote: >> Hi All, >>=20 >> I am hoping to pick the brains of those more knowledgeable about this tha= n I am. I am reading some classic masking papers with a doctoral student and= we have a question about a finding reported by Greenwood (1961). >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> Greenwood, D. D. (1961). Auditory masking and the critical band. The jour= nal of the acoustical society of America, 33(4), 484-502. >>=20 >> https://asa.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1121/1.1908699?casa_token=3D5nyI-2IW= fCUAAAAA:F_c_w65ZXWcIQE4SDr-qrEcGTLJ9QUtRChx4B2t4rOAdEv8_PJ3wKhHxvfNCaOwJ0Ej= ucY_H0J3roQ >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> In this paper Greenwood examined critical bandwidths using a band widenin= g masking paradigms to measure =E2=80=9Cmasked audiograms=E2=80=9D as he sys= tematically widened the bandwidth of a masking noise. In one experiment he l= ooked at growth of masking for his masked audiograms by systematically incre= asing the spectrum level (and overall level) of the various noise bands. He d= id this for noise bands that were narrower and wider than the critical bandw= idth. >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> For noise bandwidths that were greater than the critical band he showed a= linear growth of masking for tones centered in the noise band (i.e., linear= in band masking). However, when the noise bandwidth was less than the criti= cal bandwidth, growth of masking showed a =E2=80=9Cjog=E2=80=9D in the growt= h of masking function for tones centered in the narrow noise band. That is m= asked threshold appeared to decrease (~3 dB) as noise power increased when t= he level of the noise reached what he called a =E2=80=9Ctransition level=E2=80= =9D of around 50 dB sensation level. However, as levels increased above this= =E2=80=9Ctransition=E2=80=9D level, growth of masking again seemed linear. = Figure 6 on p. 493 of the paper shows the finding I am talking about. >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> It would not be the first time I misinterpreted an older (and newer) pape= r so I am probably just missing something. However, I was not familiar with t= his finding and wondered if others were aware of it and had thoughts on why i= t occurred. >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> Ben --Apple-Mail-A50E8A33-882D-40DF-B213-239A972410C2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D= utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">It was decades ago that I last heard from D= on. He moved to northern Washington in order to be close to British Columbia= from where he derived his ridiculously low retirement. I would be surprised= if he were still with us, were he, he would be close to 100. He was a misca= st at the UBC Dept. of Speech and Hearing entirely focused on turning out ho= rdes of speech pathologists. In any case, he is/was one of the auditory scie= ntist to whose views I always listened. He also had the gift of being able t= o clearly explain complex ideas.<div><br></div><div>Pierre<br><br>= <div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my autocorrecting iPad</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>= <blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 7, 2021, at 00:08, Richard F. Lyon <dick= lyon@xxxxxxxx> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite">= <div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl= e=3D"font-size:small">The last time I pinged Don Greenwood at <<a href=3D= "mailto:ddg@xxxxxxxx">ddg@xxxxxxxx</a>> I got a bounce. Does an= yone know if he's still with us? It would be interesting to get his co= mments on this question.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-siz= e:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I w= ould address the question in terms of the change of bandwidth with level thr= ough that middle region, and see if the described result is explai= nable by level-dependent auditory filter models.</div><div class=3D"gma= il_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"= style=3D"font-size:small">Dick</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f= ont-size:small"><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default= " style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Nov 6, 2021 at 9:28 PM Hornsby,= Benjamin Wade Young <<a href=3D"mailto:ben.hornsby@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_= blank">ben.hornsby@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma= il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20= 4,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div lang=3D"EN-US"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi All,<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am hoping to pick the brains of those more knowledg= eable about this than I am. I am reading some classic masking papers with a d= octoral student and we have a question about a finding reported by Greenwood= (1961). <u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-= serif;color:rgb(34,34,34);background:white"><u></u> <u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-= serif;color:rgb(34,34,34);background:white">Greenwood, D. D. (1961). Auditor= y masking and the critical band. <i>The journal of the acoustical socie= ty of America</i>, <i>33</i>(4), 484-502.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://asa.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1121/= 1.1908699?casa_token=3D5nyI-2IWfCUAAAAA:F_c_w65ZXWcIQE4SDr-qrEcGTLJ9QUtRChx4= B2t4rOAdEv8_PJ3wKhHxvfNCaOwJ0EjucY_H0J3roQ" target=3D"_blank">https://asa.sc= itation.org/doi/abs/10.1121/1.1908699?casa_token=3D5nyI-2IWfCUAAAAA:F_c_w65Z= XWcIQE4SDr-qrEcGTLJ9QUtRChx4B2t4rOAdEv8_PJ3wKhHxvfNCaOwJ0EjucY_H0J3roQ</a><u= ></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">In this paper Greenwood examined critical bandwidths u= sing a band widening masking paradigms to measure =E2=80=9Cmasked audiograms= =E2=80=9D as he systematically widened the bandwidth of a masking noise.&nbs= p; In one experiment he looked at growth of masking for his masked audiograms by systematically increasing the spectrum level (= and overall level) of the various noise bands. He did this for noise bands t= hat were narrower and wider than the critical bandwidth.<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">For noise bandwidths that were <b>greater</b> than th= e critical band he showed a linear growth of masking for tones centered in t= he noise band (i.e., linear in band masking). However, when the noise bandwi= dth was <b>less</b> than the critical bandwidth, growth of masking showed a =E2=80=9C= jog=E2=80=9D in the growth of masking function for tones centered in the nar= row noise band. That is masked threshold appeared to decrease (~3 dB) as noi= se power increased when the level of the noise reached what he called a =E2=80=9Ctransition level=E2=80=9D of around 50 dB= sensation level. However, as levels increased above this =E2=80=9Ctransitio= n=E2=80=9D level, growth of masking again seemed linear. Figure 6 on p. 493 o= f the paper shows the finding I am talking about.<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">It would not be the first time I misinterpreted an ol= der (and newer) paper so I am probably just missing something. However, I wa= s not familiar with this finding and wondered if others were aware of it and= had thoughts on why it occurred. <u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ben<u></u><u></u></p> </div> </div> </blockquote></div> </div></blockquote></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-A50E8A33-882D-40DF-B213-239A972410C2--