Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Change the Sound Object Distance From: Kevin Austin <kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2021 16:06:26 -0400--Apple-Mail=_E0E257F2-8A36-43C0-A235-1A562FF57ACA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi I too misread the original posting and thought the objective was to move = the source further away, which could start with lowpass filtering, the = slight addition of reverb and cross-channel delays. The opposite, bringing the sound =E2=80=98closer=E2=80=99, I have done = using a multi-band [4 bands in this case] expander, and eq. I needed to = remove reverb and brighten the signal. Brightening was done use a = 31-band graphic eq. A multiband fully parametric eq would also be a good = place to start. Using the multiband expander, I started by setting the expansion = thresholds at around -15db =E2=80=94 source dependent, with a 1:1.5 = expansion ratio, and a second threshold at around =E2=80=9325dB with a = 1:3 expansion ratio. The bandwidths of the expanders, the thresholds, = and the expansion ratios were adjusted by ear. While the sources had been acoustic, they had all been significantly = processed and mixed. The audio needed to be cleaned up because the file = was to be played back in a space with considerably greater reverb time = than expected. Kevin > On 2021, Mar 13, at 4:17 AM, Brian FG Katz = <brian.katz@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >=20 > Dear Askan,=20 > =20 > Adding to Lorenzo=E2=80=99s response, in addition to needing = information on how you intend to present the sound (monaural/binaural, = speaker/headphones) it depends on how close you are try to make the = sound feel, and finally what the sound is. > =20 > There can be spectral tilt (ration of high to low frequency = components) that change with distance. This depends again on how close, = and what the sound content is. As an example, make a quick recording of = a similar type of natural sound at 10m then 10cm. You can compare the = spectra to get a rough estimate of the correction EQ.=20 > =20 > For binaural, there are several useful cues like distance/frequency = dependent head shadowing and auditory parallax. For distances <1m, these = are modelled rather well in our research based free binaural VST plugin = http://anaglyph.dalembert.upmc.fr/ <http://anaglyph.dalembert.upmc.fr/>. = Give it a try.=20 > =20 > -Brian > -- > Brian FG Katz, Research Director, CNRS > Groupe Lutheries - Acoustique =E2=80=93 Musique > Sorbonne Universit=C3=A9, CNRS, UMR 7190, Institut Jean Le Rond = =E2=88=82'Alembert=20 > http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz = <http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz> --Apple-Mail=_E0E257F2-8A36-43C0-A235-1A562FF57ACA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Hi</div><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I too misread the = original posting and thought the objective was to move the source = further away, which could start with lowpass filtering, the slight = addition of reverb and cross-channel delays.</div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The opposite, bringing the sound = =E2=80=98closer=E2=80=99, I have done using a multi-band [4 bands in = this case] expander, and eq. I needed to remove reverb and brighten the = signal. Brightening was done use a 31-band graphic eq. A multiband fully = parametric eq would also be a good place to start.</div><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Using the multiband = expander, I started by setting the expansion thresholds at around -15db = =E2=80=94 source dependent, with a 1:1.5 expansion ratio, and a second = threshold at around =E2=80=9325dB with a 1:3 expansion ratio. The = bandwidths of the expanders, the thresholds, and the expansion ratios = were adjusted by ear.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"">While the sources had been acoustic, they had all been = significantly processed and mixed. The audio needed to be cleaned up = because the file was to be played back in a space with considerably = greater reverb time than expected.</div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"">Kevin</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div><br = class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 2021, = Mar 13, at 4:17 AM, Brian FG Katz <<a = href=3D"mailto:brian.katz@xxxxxxxx" = class=3D"">brian.katz@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div = class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, = 0, 0); font-family: CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span = class=3D"">Dear Askan,<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p = class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span = class=3D""><o:p class=3D""> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" = class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">Adding to Lorenzo=E2=80=99s = response, in addition to needing information on how you intend to = present the sound (monaural/binaural, speaker/headphones) it depends on = how close you are try to make the sound feel, and finally what the sound = is.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" = class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p = class=3D""> </o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" = class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">There can be spectral tilt = (ration of high to low frequency components) that change with distance. = This depends again on how close, and what the sound content is. As an = example, make a quick recording of a similar type of natural sound at = 10m then 10cm. You can compare the spectra to get a rough estimate of = the correction EQ.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p = class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span = lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""> </o:p></span></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">For = binaural, there are several useful cues like distance/frequency = dependent head shadowing and auditory parallax. For distances <1m, = these are modelled rather well in our research based free binaural = VST plugin<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"http://anaglyph.dalembert.upmc.fr/" style=3D"color: purple; = text-decoration: underline;" = class=3D"">http://anaglyph.dalembert.upmc.fr/</a>. Give it a try.<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p = class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span = lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""> </o:p></span></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" = class=3D"">-Brian<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: = rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">--</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" = class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm = 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" = class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" = class=3D"">Brian FG Katz, Research Director, CNRS</span><span = lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: = Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: = rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Groupe Lutheries - Acoustique =E2=80=93 = Musique</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" = class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" = class=3D"">Sorbonne Universit=C3=A9, CNRS, UMR 7190, Institut Jean Le = Rond =E2=88=82'Alembert<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p = class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span = style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><a = href=3D"http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz" style=3D"color: purple; = text-decoration: underline;" = class=3D"">http://www.dalembert.upmc.fr/home/katz</a></span></div></div></= div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_E0E257F2-8A36-43C0-A235-1A562FF57ACA--