Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Online rhythm production experiments From: "Jacoby, Nori" <nori.jacoby@xxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 14:10:20 +0000--_000_0957b03700c9424bbfb38715657a2f0caempgde_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Henkjan and everybody, My research group has developed a technology that has solved this problem a= nd allowed us to collect reliable tapping data in an online setup. We=92ve = successfully collected large tapping datasets this way, and we believe that= our method fully addresses the issues mentioned in this thread (low latenc= y and jitter) while also being practical in terms of realistic online data = collection. We plan to publish a preprint by the end of the year and theref= ore make the details of the technology accessible to everyone soon. If you = are interested in using the technology earlier, please contact me. Very best, Nori Jacoby Max Planck Group Leader, =93Computational Auditory Perception=94 Max Planck Institute for Empirical Aesthetics Gr=FCneburgweg 14, 60322 Frankfurt am Main, Germany nori.jacoby@xxxxxxxx<mailto:nori.jacoby@xxxxxxxx> +49 69 8300479-820 ________________________________ From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx>= on behalf of Samuel Mehr <sam@xxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 1:30 PM To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Online rhythm production experiments Hi Henkjan & list, we haven't heard of a solution for this, but have tried = a few times to do synchronization experiments to little avail. My sense is = that there is quite a bit of variability in latency across physical keyboar= ds, browsers, internet connections, operating systems, etc etc, such that i= t makes what seems like a simple problem rather hard. I'd love to hear if a= nyone has a solution. Sam -- Samuel Mehr Department of Psychology Harvard University Be a citizen scientist at themusiclab.org<https://themusiclab.org/>! On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 7:12 AM Prof. dr Henkjan Honing <honing@xxxxxxxx<mail= to:honing@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: We are looking for some advice from those that have been doing online rhyth= m production experiments in the last few years. Rhythm production experiments that are performed online =96 like typing on = the spacebar 'in sync=92 to a fragment of streamed music =96 is notoriously= tricky due to all kinds of delays mostly due to the effects of scan rate, = device drivers and OS scheduling at the client-side [1,2]; Delays / jitter = in the order of 50-100 ms are not uncommon. There are all kinds of workarounds available, like offline analysis of audi= o files or using estimation algorithms [3], but it might well be that some = of you have solved some of these issues in a more direct way. For instance,= a piece of software at the client-side that handles the timing of both the= streaming and recording the taps. If you have experience on these issues, we would appreciate if you would em= ail us your tips, solutions, etc. Henkjan Honing Fleur Bouwer [1] https://psyarxiv.com/d6nu5/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u= =3Dhttps-3A__psyarxiv.com_d6nu5_&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DWO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=3D= JU36mKiQOsv42HCBbLwTO302m5Y3d6JVmlBV92I0soM&m=3DXsSUfesmL1_26ku7La4hTw7WpV9= gDSJ8PwBbu6-YdUQ&s=3DZxPhSAKVDdlEiV1jHeGOxMlPFFWSxH_0LwuMOKkQwzE&e=3D> [2] https://psyarxiv.com/jfeca/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u= =3Dhttps-3A__psyarxiv.com_jfeca_&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DWO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=3D= JU36mKiQOsv42HCBbLwTO302m5Y3d6JVmlBV92I0soM&m=3DXsSUfesmL1_26ku7La4hTw7WpV9= gDSJ8PwBbu6-YdUQ&s=3D3ZmlnK8L0BlwvLDKafMPbTIM_rcF2yFcMqx43DdIUtc&e=3D> [3] https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rbd/papers/Tap-ISMIR-2009.pdf<https://urldefens= e.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.cs.cmu.edu_-7Erbd_papers_Tap-2DIS= MIR-2D2009.pdf&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DWO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=3DJU36mKiQOsv42HCBbL= wTO302m5Y3d6JVmlBV92I0soM&m=3DXsSUfesmL1_26ku7La4hTw7WpV9gDSJ8PwBbu6-YdUQ&s= =3DlFlIzPZvpHfs9OQ0utXVVB8yPLAkJ15_zFkJ326XVi0&e=3D> . University of Amsterdam Faculty of Humanities Faculty of Science . --_000_0957b03700c9424bbfb38715657a2f0caempgde_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1= 252"> <style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margi= n-bottom:0;} --></style> </head> <body dir=3D"ltr"> <div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"" dir=3D"ltr"> <p style=3D"">Hi Henkjan and everybody,<br style=3D""> <br style=3D""> My research group has developed a technology that has solved this problem a= nd allowed us to collect reliable tapping data in an online setup. We=92ve = successfully collected large tapping datasets this way, and we believe= that our method fully addresses the issues mentioned in this thread (low latency and jitter) while also being practic= al in terms of realistic online data collection. We plan to publish a prepr= int by the end of the year and therefore make the details of the technology= accessible to everyone soon. If you are interested in using the technology earlier, please contact me.<br = style=3D""> <br style=3D""> Very best,<br style=3D""> Nori Jacoby<br> </p> <p style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-seri= f, Helvetica, EmojiFont, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoj= i", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji&q= uot;, EmojiSymbols; font-size: 12pt;"> <br> </p> <div id=3D"Signature" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, H= elvetica, sans-serif, Helvetica, EmojiFont, "Apple Color Emoji", = "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", &q= uot;Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols; font-size: 12pt;"> <div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; colo= r: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, Helvetica, Em= ojiFont, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoCol= orEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbo= ls;"> <p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt; line-height:1.38= "><span style=3D"vertical-align:baseline; font-size:9pt">Max Planck Group L= eader, =93Computational Auditory Perception=94</span></p> <p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt; line-height:1.38= "><span style=3D"vertical-align:baseline; font-size:9pt">Max Planck Institu= te for Empirical Aesthetics</span></p> <p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt; line-height:1.38= "><span style=3D"vertical-align:baseline; font-size:9pt">Gr=FCneburgweg 14,= 60322 Frankfurt am Main, Germany</span></p> <p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"margin-top:0pt; margin-bottom:0pt; line-height:1.38= "><span style=3D"vertical-align:baseline"><a href=3D"mailto:nori.jacoby@xxxxxxxx= mpg.de" title=3D"mailto:nori.jacoby@xxxxxxxx Cmd+Click or tap to follo= w the link" style=3D"" id=3D"LPNoLP"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt">nori.jac= oby@xxxxxxxx</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:9pt"> </span><span style=3D"font-size:9pt">+49 69 8300479-820</span><font col= or=3D"#1155cc" face=3D"Arial"></font> </span></p> <p></p> </div> </div> <br> <br> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-se= rif, Helvetica, EmojiFont, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Em= oji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji= ", EmojiSymbols; font-size: 12pt;"> <hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%"> <div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co= lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> AUDITORY - Research i= n Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> on behalf of Samuel = Mehr <sam@xxxxxxxx><br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 19, 2020 1:30 PM<br> <b>To:</b> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [AUDITORY] Online rhythm production experiments</font> <div> </div> </div> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Henkjan & list, we haven't heard of a solution for = this, but have tried a few times to do synchronization experiments to littl= e avail. My sense is that there is quite a bit of variability in laten= cy across physical keyboards, browsers, internet connections, operating systems, etc etc, such that it makes what seems lik= e a simple problem rather hard. I'd love to hear if anyone has a solution. <div><br> </div> <div>Sam</div> <div><br clear=3D"all"> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div style=3D"color:rgb(136,136,136); font-size:12.8px"> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34); font-size:12.8px"> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font color=3D"#666666">--</fon= t></div> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font color=3D"#666666">Samuel = Mehr</font></div> <div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font color=3D"#666666">Department of Psych= ology</font></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><span style=3D"color:rgb(102,10= 2,102); font-size:12.8px">Harvard University</span></div> <div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><span style=3D"color:rgb(102,10= 2,102); font-size:12.8px"><b>Be a citizen scientist at <a href=3D"http= s://themusiclab.org/" target=3D"_blank">themusiclab.org</a>!</b></span></di= v> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <br> </div> </div> <br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 7:12 AM Prof.= dr Henkjan Honing <<a href=3D"mailto:honing@xxxxxxxx">honing@xxxxxxxx</a>&g= t; wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border= -left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex"> <div style=3D""> <div><br> </div> <div style=3D"">We are looking for some advice from those that have been do= ing online <b>rhythm production</b> experiments in the last few y= ears. </div> <div style=3D""><br> </div> <div style=3D"">Rhythm production experiments that are performed online =96= like typing on the spacebar 'in sync=92 to a fragment of streamed music = =96 is notoriously tricky due to all kinds of delays mostly due to the effe= cts of scan rate, device drivers and OS scheduling at the client-side [1,2]; Delays / jitter in the order of 50-100 ms are not u= ncommon.</div> <div style=3D""><br> </div> <div style=3D"">There are all kinds of workarounds available, like offline = analysis of audio files or using estimation algorithms [3], but it might we= ll be that some of you have solved some of these issues in a more direct wa= y. For instance, a piece of software at the client-side that handles the timing of both the streaming and recor= ding the taps. </div> <div style=3D""><br> </div> <div>If you have experience on these issues, we would appreciate if you wou= ld email us your tips, solutions, etc.</div> <div><br> </div> <div><i>Henkjan Honing</i></div> <div><i>Fleur Bouwer</i></div> <div><span><br> </span></div> <div><span>[1] <a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u= =3Dhttps-3A__psyarxiv.com_d6nu5_&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DWO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL8= 5hQ&r=3DJU36mKiQOsv42HCBbLwTO302m5Y3d6JVmlBV92I0soM&m=3DXsSUfesmL1_= 26ku7La4hTw7WpV9gDSJ8PwBbu6-YdUQ&s=3DZxPhSAKVDdlEiV1jHeGOxMlPFFWSxH_0Lw= uMOKkQwzE&e=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://psyarxiv.com/d6nu5/</a></span= ></div> <div>[2] <a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps= -3A__psyarxiv.com_jfeca_&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DWO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&= r=3DJU36mKiQOsv42HCBbLwTO302m5Y3d6JVmlBV92I0soM&m=3DXsSUfesmL1_26ku7La4= hTw7WpV9gDSJ8PwBbu6-YdUQ&s=3D3ZmlnK8L0BlwvLDKafMPbTIM_rcF2yFcMqx43DdIUt= c&e=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://psyarxiv.com/jfeca/</a></div> <div>[3] <a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps= -3A__www.cs.cmu.edu_-7Erbd_papers_Tap-2DISMIR-2D2009.pdf&d=3DDwMFaQ&= ;c=3DWO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=3DJU36mKiQOsv42HCBbLwTO302m5Y3d6JVmlBV92I= 0soM&m=3DXsSUfesmL1_26ku7La4hTw7WpV9gDSJ8PwBbu6-YdUQ&s=3DlFlIzPZvpH= fs9OQ0utXVVB8yPLAkJ15_zFkJ326XVi0&e=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://www.c= s.cmu.edu/~rbd/papers/Tap-ISMIR-2009.pdf</a></div> <div><br> </div> <div> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; text-al= ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-s= pacing:0px; text-decoration:none"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start; text-indent:0px"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start; text-indent:0px"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start; text-indent:0px"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start; text-indent:0px"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D""> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start; text-indent:0px"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start; text-indent:0px"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D""> <div style=3D"text-align:start; text-indent:0px"> <div style=3D"margin-bottom:0px; margin-top:0px"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start; text-indent:0px"> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D""> <div style=3D"margin-bottom:0px; margin-top:0px"> <div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-style:normal; letter-spacing:normal; t= ext-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:n= one; font-family:Courier; font-size:14px"> <div><span style=3D"font-size:10px; color:rgb(102,102,102); font-family:Cal= ibri">.</span></div> </div> <div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-style:normal; letter-spacing:normal; t= ext-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:n= one; font-family:Courier; font-weight:normal"> <span style=3D"font-weight:bold; color:rgb(102,102,102); font-family:Calibr= i; font-size:12px">University of Amsterdam</span></div> <div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-style:normal; letter-spacing:normal; t= ext-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:n= one; font-family:Courier; font-weight:normal"> <span style=3D"color:rgb(102,102,102); font-family:Calibri; font-size:12px"= >Faculty of Humanities </span></div> <div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-style:normal; letter-spacing:normal; t= ext-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:n= one; font-family:Courier; font-weight:normal"> <span style=3D"color:rgb(102,102,102); font-family:Calibri; font-size:12px"= >Faculty of Science</span></div> <div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-style:normal; letter-spacing:normal; t= ext-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:n= one; font-family:Courier; font-weight:normal"> <span style=3D"font-size:10px; color:rgb(102,102,102); font-family:Calibri"= >.</span></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <br> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_0957b03700c9424bbfb38715657a2f0caempgde_--