Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Online rhythm production experiments From: Samuel Mehr <sam@xxxxxxxx> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 07:30:32 -0400--00000000000054f4d205b20473e9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Henkjan & list, we haven't heard of a solution for this, but have tried a few times to do synchronization experiments to little avail. My sense is that there is quite a bit of variability in latency across physical keyboards, browsers, internet connections, operating systems, etc etc, such that it makes what seems like a simple problem rather hard. I'd love to hear if anyone has a solution. Sam -- Samuel Mehr Department of Psychology Harvard University *Be a citizen scientist at themusiclab.org <https://themusiclab.org/>!* On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 7:12 AM Prof. dr Henkjan Honing <honing@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > We are looking for some advice from those that have been doing online *rh= ythm > production* experiments in the last few years. > > Rhythm production experiments that are performed online =E2=80=93 like ty= ping on > the spacebar 'in sync=E2=80=99 to a fragment of streamed music =E2=80=93 = is notoriously > tricky due to all kinds of delays mostly due to the effects of scan rate, > device drivers and OS scheduling at the client-side [1,2]; Delays / jitte= r > in the order of 50-100 ms are not uncommon. > > There are all kinds of workarounds available, like offline analysis of > audio files or using estimation algorithms [3], but it might well be that > some of you have solved some of these issues in a more direct way. For > instance, a piece of software at the client-side that handles the timing = of > both the streaming and recording the taps. > > If you have experience on these issues, we would appreciate if you would > email us your tips, solutions, etc. > > *Henkjan Honing* > *Fleur Bouwer* > > [1] https://psyarxiv.com/d6nu5/ > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__psyarxiv.com_d6nu= 5_&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DWO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=3DJU36mKiQOsv42HCBbLwTO302m5Y3d6= JVmlBV92I0soM&m=3DXsSUfesmL1_26ku7La4hTw7WpV9gDSJ8PwBbu6-YdUQ&s=3DZxPhSAKVD= dlEiV1jHeGOxMlPFFWSxH_0LwuMOKkQwzE&e=3D> > [2] https://psyarxiv.com/jfeca/ > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__psyarxiv.com_jfec= a_&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DWO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=3DJU36mKiQOsv42HCBbLwTO302m5Y3d6= JVmlBV92I0soM&m=3DXsSUfesmL1_26ku7La4hTw7WpV9gDSJ8PwBbu6-YdUQ&s=3D3ZmlnK8L0= BlwvLDKafMPbTIM_rcF2yFcMqx43DdIUtc&e=3D> > [3] https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rbd/papers/Tap-ISMIR-2009.pdf > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.cs.cmu.edu_-7= Erbd_papers_Tap-2DISMIR-2D2009.pdf&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DWO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r= =3DJU36mKiQOsv42HCBbLwTO302m5Y3d6JVmlBV92I0soM&m=3DXsSUfesmL1_26ku7La4hTw7W= pV9gDSJ8PwBbu6-YdUQ&s=3DlFlIzPZvpHfs9OQ0utXVVB8yPLAkJ15_zFkJ326XVi0&e=3D> > > . > University of Amsterdam > Faculty of Humanities > Faculty of Science > . > > --00000000000054f4d205b20473e9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Henkjan & list, we haven't heard of a solution = for this, but have tried a few times to do synchronization experiments to l= ittle avail. My sense is that there=C2=A0is quite a bit of variability in l= atency across physical keyboards, browsers, internet connections, operating= systems, etc etc, such that it makes what seems like a simple problem rath= er hard. I'd love to hear if anyone has a solution.<div><br></div><div>= Sam</div><div><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signat= ure" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><= div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir= =3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr= "><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div = dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"= ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d= iv style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div style=3D= "font-size:12.8px"><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div style=3D"font-size:= 12.8px"><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><di= v style=3D"color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:12.8px"><div dir=3D"ltr" style= =3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.8px"><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-si= ze:12.8px"><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div dir=3D"ltr" sty= le=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div di= r=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12= .8px"><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D= "font-size:12.8px"><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div dir=3D"= ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"= ><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font color=3D"#666666">--</fo= nt></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font color=3D"#= 666666">Samuel Mehr</font></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font color= =3D"#666666">Department of Psychology</font></div><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D= "font-size:12.8px"><span style=3D"color:rgb(102,102,102);font-size:12.8px">= Harvard University</span></div><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px">= <span style=3D"color:rgb(102,102,102);font-size:12.8px"><b>Be a citizen sci= entist at=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://themusiclab.org/" target=3D"_blank">themu= siclab.org</a>!</b></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><= /div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di= v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><= /div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di= v><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"= gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 7:12 AM Prof. dr Henkjan Honing <<a = href=3D"mailto:honing@xxxxxxxx">honing@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockq= uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p= x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: bre= ak-word;"><div><br></div><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">We are l= ooking for some advice from those that have been doing online=C2=A0<b>rhyth= m production</b>=C2=A0experiments in the last few years.=C2=A0</div><div st= yle=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><br></div><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: b= reak-word;">Rhythm production experiments that are performed online =E2=80= =93 like typing on the spacebar 'in sync=E2=80=99 to a fragment of stre= amed music =E2=80=93 is notoriously tricky due to all kinds of delays mostl= y due to the effects of scan rate, device drivers and OS scheduling=C2=A0at= the client-side [1,2]; Delays / jitter in the order of 50-100 ms are not u= ncommon.</div><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><br></div><div styl= e=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">There are all kinds of workarounds availab= le, like offline analysis of audio files or using estimation algorithms [3]= , but it might well be that some of you have solved some of these issues in= a more direct way. For instance, a piece of software at the client-side th= at handles the timing of both the streaming and recording the taps.=C2=A0</= div><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><br></div><div>If you have ex= perience on these issues, we would appreciate if you would email us your ti= ps, solutions, etc.</div><div><br></div><div><i>Henkjan Honing</i></div><di= v><i>Fleur Bouwer</i></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>[1]=C2=A0= <a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__psyarxiv.= com_d6nu5_&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DWO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=3DJU36mKiQOs= v42HCBbLwTO302m5Y3d6JVmlBV92I0soM&m=3DXsSUfesmL1_26ku7La4hTw7WpV9gDSJ8P= wBbu6-YdUQ&s=3DZxPhSAKVDdlEiV1jHeGOxMlPFFWSxH_0LwuMOKkQwzE&e=3D" ta= rget=3D"_blank">https://psyarxiv.com/d6nu5/</a></span></div><div>[2]=C2=A0<= a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__psyarxiv.c= om_jfeca_&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DWO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=3DJU36mKiQOsv= 42HCBbLwTO302m5Y3d6JVmlBV92I0soM&m=3DXsSUfesmL1_26ku7La4hTw7WpV9gDSJ8Pw= Bbu6-YdUQ&s=3D3ZmlnK8L0BlwvLDKafMPbTIM_rcF2yFcMqx43DdIUtc&e=3D" tar= get=3D"_blank">https://psyarxiv.com/jfeca/</a></div><div>[3]=C2=A0<a href= =3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.cs.cmu.edu_-= 7Erbd_papers_Tap-2DISMIR-2D2009.pdf&d=3DDwMFaQ&c=3DWO-RGvefibhHBZq3= fL85hQ&r=3DJU36mKiQOsv42HCBbLwTO302m5Y3d6JVmlBV92I0soM&m=3DXsSUfesm= L1_26ku7La4hTw7WpV9gDSJ8PwBbu6-YdUQ&s=3DlFlIzPZvpHfs9OQ0utXVVB8yPLAkJ15= _zFkJ326XVi0&e=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rbd/papers= /Tap-ISMIR-2009.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-alig= n:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing= :0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);lett= er-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;whit= e-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" sty= le=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0= px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:= none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;tex= t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s= pacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0= );letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:non= e;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"aut= o" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-in= dent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decor= ation:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:norm= al;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;= word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb= (0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transfo= rm:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir= =3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;= text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;tex= t-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spaci= ng:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:= normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"co= lor:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-= transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><d= iv dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:= start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0= px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter= -spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-= space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"auto" style= =3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px= ;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:no= ne"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start;text-indent:0px"><div dir= =3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start;text-indent:0px"><div dir=3D"auto" styl= e=3D"text-align:start;text-indent:0px"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-alig= n:start;text-indent:0px"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-wo= rd;"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start;text-indent:0px"><div dir= =3D"auto" style=3D"text-align:start;text-indent:0px"><div dir=3D"auto" styl= e=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div style=3D"text-align:start;text-indent= :0px"><div style=3D"margin-bottom:0px;margin-top:0px"><div dir=3D"auto" sty= le=3D"text-align:start;text-indent:0px"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"overflow= -wrap: break-word;"><div style=3D"margin-bottom:0px;margin-top:0px"><div st= yle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-s= pacing:normal;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-= decoration:none;font-family:Courier;font-size:14px"><div><span style=3D"fon= t-size:10px;color:rgb(102,102,102);font-family:Calibri">.</span></div></div= ><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;= letter-spacing:normal;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0= px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Courier;font-weight:normal"><span style= =3D"font-weight:bold;color:rgb(102,102,102);font-family:Calibri;font-size:1= 2px">University of Amsterdam</span></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);fon= t-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-transfor= m:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family= :Courier;font-weight:normal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(102,102,102);font-fam= ily:Calibri;font-size:12px">Faculty of Humanities=C2=A0</span></div><div st= yle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-s= pacing:normal;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-= decoration:none;font-family:Courier;font-weight:normal"><span style=3D"colo= r:rgb(102,102,102);font-family:Calibri;font-size:12px">Faculty of Science</= span></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant-ca= ps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word= -spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Courier;font-weight:normal"><= span style=3D"font-size:10px;color:rgb(102,102,102);font-family:Calibri">.<= /span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></d= iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>= </div></div></div></div> </div> <br></div></blockquote></div> --00000000000054f4d205b20473e9--