Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Papers on lack of effect of musical training From: Colette McKAY <CMcKAY@xxxxxxxx> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 08:27:48 +0000<html dir=3D"ltr"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1= 252"> <style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"></style> </head> <body fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0"> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: = 10pt;">I agree with everyone about the importance of music to humankind. Fr= om this point of view it would be an interesting research study to look at = the psychological motivations of <u>researchers </u>who run studies to "show" the benefits gained = by music training for non-music domains of cognition etc. Are they generall= y just interested in the scientific study of far transfer of learning effec= ts, with music as an example? Or are they motivated by a need to "prove" music education has non-music ben= efits based on a perception that music is not well-enough justified for its= own sake? Or something like "I love music therefore it would be good = to show how good for us it is"? <div><br> </div> <div>The tendency for poor design, unsubstantiated claims, and confirmation= bias in many existing published studies makes the first option less likely= in my opinion.<br> <div><br> </div> <div>Discuss....</div> <div><br style=3D"font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px;"> </div> </div> <div><br> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px"> <div><span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-s= erif; font-size:13.3333px">Professor Colette McKay</span><br style=3D"font-= family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px= "> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;= font-size:13.3333px">Principal Scientist</span></div> <div><span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-s= erif; font-size:13.3333px">Leader, Translational Hearing Research</span><br= style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font= -size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;= font-size:13.3333px">Bionics Institute</span><br style=3D"font-family:&quo= t;Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;= font-size:13.3333px">384-388 Albert St</span><br style=3D"font-family:&quo= t;Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;= font-size:13.3333px">East Melbourne Vic 3002</span><br style=3D"font-famil= y:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;= font-size:13.3333px">Office: +61 3 9667 7500</span><br style=3D"font-f= amily:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"= > <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;= font-size:13.3333px">Direct line: +61 3 9667 7541</span><br style=3D"f= ont-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.33= 33px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;= font-size:13.3333px">Mobile: 0408698202</span><br style=3D"font-family:&qu= ot;Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;= font-size:13.3333px">Fax: +61 3 9667 7518</span><br style=3D"font-fami= ly:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <a href=3D"http://www.bionicsinstitute.org/our-staff/Pages/Prof-Colette-McK= ay.aspx" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" style=3D"font-family= :"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px">http= ://www.bionicsinstitute.org/our-staff/Pages/Prof-Colette-McKay.aspx</a><br = style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-= size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;= font-size:13.3333px">Donate today to help us change lives</span><br style= =3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:= 13.3333px"> <br style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; f= ont-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;= font-size:13.3333px">This email is private and confidential to the intende= d recipient. If you are not the intended recipient please do not copy it, c= irculate it or take any action in reliance on it. Kindly notify me that it has been misdirected and then delete it. Than= k you.</span></div> </div> </div> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px= "> <hr tabindex=3D"-1"> <div id=3D"divRpF170428" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si= ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Per= ception [AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx on behalf of Ian Cross [ic108@xxxxxxxx= <br> <b>Sent:</b> 17 August 2020 16:22<br> <b>To:</b> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [AUDITORY] Papers on lack of effect of musical training= <br> </font><br> </div> <div></div> <div> <p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">I agree: music matters, and it matt= ers ever more in times where those in power have none of it.<span style=3D"= "> </span>As Shakespeare put it "</span><span style=3D""> The man that </= span>hath no music in himself, Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sound= s, Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils; The motions of his spirit a= re dull as night, And his affections dark as Erebus<span style=3D"">"</span><span style=3D""></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">As far as definitions of music are concerned, I'd di= rect interested parties to Tomas Turino's excellent book Music as Social Li= fe (Turino, T. (2008). <i>Music as social life : the politics of participation</i>. London: Univer= sity of Chicago Press), ideas he covered in brief in a later paper (Turino,= T. (2009). Four Fields of Music Making and Sustainable Living. <i>The World of Music, 51</i>(1), 95-117).<span style=3D""> </span>As= for my own ideas about music =97 they evolve, but I'd suggest two papers t= hat present ideas point in the direction of definitions:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cross, I. (2012). Cognitive Science and the Cultural= Nature of Music. <i>Topics in Cognitive Science, 4</i>(4), 668-677.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cross, I. (2014). Music and communication in music p= sychology. <i>Psychology of Music, 42</i>(6), 809-819.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ian Cross</p> <p><style>=0A= <!--=0A= @xxxxxxxx=0A= {font-family:"Cambria Math"}=0A= @xxxxxxxx=0A= {font-family:Calibri}=0A= p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal=0A= {margin:0cm;=0A= font-size:12.0pt;=0A= font-family:"Arial",sans-serif}=0A= .MsoChpDefault=0A= {font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif}=0A= -->=0A= </style></p> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html>