Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Papers on lack of effect of musical training From: Ian Cross <ic108@xxxxxxxx> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 09:50:32 +0100 X-Cam-ScannerInfo:http://help.uis.cam.ac.uk/email-scanner-virusThis is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BEA6A264E3A480D4C54B4F62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by edgeum2.it.mcgill.ca id 07H8odpP016388 They might also be motivated by the need to produce arguments to=20 substantiate a value for music in education in the face of neoliberal=20 indifference and ineptitude=85 On 17/08/2020 09:27, Colette McKAY wrote: > I agree with everyone about the importance of music to humankind. From=20 > this point of view it would be an interesting research study to look=20 > at the psychological motivations of _researchers _who run studies to=20 > "show" the benefits gained by music training for non-music domains of=20 > cognition etc. Are they generally just interested in the scientific=20 > study of far transfer of learning effects, with music as an example?=20 > Or are they motivated by a need to "prove" music education has=20 > non-music benefits based on a perception that music is not well-enough=20 > justified for its own sake? Or something like "I love music therefore=20 > it would be good to show how good for us it is"? > > The tendency for poor design, unsubstantiated claims, and confirmation=20 > bias in many existing published studies makes the first option less=20 > likely in my opinion. > > Discuss.... > > > Professor Colette McKay > Principal Scientist > Leader, Translational Hearing Research > Bionics Institute > 384-388 Albert St > East Melbourne Vic 3002 > Office: +61 3 9667 7500 > Direct line: +61 3 9667 7541 > Mobile: 0408698202 > Fax: +61 3 9667 7518 > http://www.bionicsinstitute.org/our-staff/Pages/Prof-Colette-McKay.aspx > Donate today to help us change lives > > This email is private and confidential to the intended recipient. If=20 > you are not the intended recipient please do not copy it, circulate it=20 > or take any action in reliance on it. Kindly notify me that it has=20 > been misdirected and then delete it. Thank you. > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= - > *From:* AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception=20 > [AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx on behalf of Ian Cross [ic108@xxxxxxxx > *Sent:* 17 August 2020 16:22 > *To:* AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx > *Subject:* Re: [AUDITORY] Papers on lack of effect of musical training > > I agree: music matters, and it matters ever more in times where those=20 > in power have none of it.As Shakespeare put it "The man that hath no=20 > music in himself, Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds, Is=20 > fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils; The motions of his spirit=20 > are dull as night, And his affections dark as Erebus" > > As far as definitions of music are concerned, I'd direct interested=20 > parties to Tomas Turino's excellent book Music as Social Life (Turino,=20 > T. (2008). /Music as social life : the politics of participation/.=20 > London: University of Chicago Press), ideas he covered in brief in a=20 > later paper (Turino, T. (2009). Four Fields of Music Making and=20 > Sustainable Living. /The World of Music, 51/(1), 95-117).As for my own=20 > ideas about music =97 they evolve, but I'd suggest two papers that=20 > present ideas point in the direction of definitions: > > Cross, I. (2012). Cognitive Science and the Cultural Nature of Music.=20 > /Topics in Cognitive Science, 4/(4), 668-677. > > Cross, I. (2014). Music and communication in music psychology.=20 > /Psychology of Music, 42/(6), 809-819. > > Ian Cross > --=20 Professor Ian Cross Chair, Faculty Board of Music Director, Centre for Music & Science Faculty of Music University of Cambridge Cambridge CB3 9DP --------------BEA6A264E3A480D4C54B4F62 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by edgeum2.it.mcgill.ca id 07H8odpP016388 <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252"> </head> <body> <p>They might also be motivated by the need to produce arguments to substantiate a value for music in education in the face of neoliberal indifference and ineptitude=85<br> </p> <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 17/08/2020 09:27, Colette McKAY wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:9AC0D73F0908C9448EF1218DB529E1C4F4A23F12@xxxxxxxx= edu.au"> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252"> <style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"></style> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: 10pt;">I agree with everyone about the importance of music to humankind. From this point of view it would be an interesting research study to look at the psychological motivations of <u>researchers </u>who run studies to "show" the benefits gained by music training for non-music domains of cognition etc. Are they generally just interested in the scientific study of far transfer of learning effects, with music as an example? Or are they motivated by a need to "prove" music education has non-music benefits based on a perception that music is not well-enough justified for its own sake? Or something like "I love music therefore it would be good to show how good for us it is"? <div><br> </div> <div>The tendency for poor design, unsubstantiated claims, and confirmation bias in many existing published studies makes the first option less likely in my opinion.<br> <div><br> </div> <div>Discuss....</div> <div><br style=3D"font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13.3333px;"> </div> </div> <div><br> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px"> <div style=3D"font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px"> <div><span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px">Professor Colette McKay</span><br style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px">Principal Scientist</span></div> <div><span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px">Leader, Translational Hearing Research</span><br style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px">Bionics Institute</span><br style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px">384-388 Albert St</span><br style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px">East Melbourne Vic 3002</span><br style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px">Office: +61 3 9667 7500</span><br style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px">Direct line: +61 3 9667 7541</span= ><br style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px">Mobile: 0408698202</span><br style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px">Fax: +61 3 9667 7518</span><br style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <a href=3D"http://www.bionicsinstitute.org/our-staff/Pages/Prof-Colette-McKa= y.aspx" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://ww= w.bionicsinstitute.org/our-staff/Pages/Prof-Colette-McKay.aspx</a><br style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px">Donate today to help us change lives</span><br style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <br style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13.3333px">This email is private and confidential to the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient please do not copy it, circulate it or take any action in reliance on it. Kindly notify me that it has been misdirected and then delete it. Thank you.</span></div> </div> </div> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px"> <hr tabindex=3D"-1"> <div id=3D"divRpF170428" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font size=3D= "2" face=3D"Tahoma" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception [<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-a= bbreviated" href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx= L.CA</a>] on behalf of Ian Cross [<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviate= d" href=3D"mailto:ic108@xxxxxxxx">ic108@xxxxxxxx</a>]<br> <b>Sent:</b> 17 August 2020 16:22<br> <b>To:</b> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"ma= ilto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [AUDITORY] Papers on lack of effect of musical training<br> </font><br> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">I agree: music matter= s, and it matters ever more in times where those in power have none of it.<span style=3D"">=A0 </span>As Shakespeare put it "</span><span style=3D""> Th= e man that </span>hath no music in himself, Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds, Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils; The motions of his spirit are dull as night, And his affections dark as Erebus<span style=3D""= >"</span><span style=3D""></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">As far as definitions of music are concerned, I'd direct interested parties to Tomas Turino's excellent book Music as Social Life (Turino, T. (2008). <i>Music as social life : the politics of participation</i>. London: University of Chicago Press), ideas he covered in brief in a later paper (Turino, T. (2009). Four Fields of Music Making and Sustainable Living. <i>The World of Music, 51</i>(1), 95-117).<span style=3D"">= =A0 </span>As for my own ideas about music =97 they evolve, but I'd suggest two papers that present ideas point in the direction of definitions:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cross, I. (2012). Cognitive Science an= d the Cultural Nature of Music. <i>Topics in Cognitive Science, 4</i>(4), 668-677.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cross, I. (2014). Music and communication in music psychology. <i>Psychology of Music, 42</i>(6), 809-819.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ian Cross</p> <p> <style> <!-- @xxxxxxxx {font-family:"Cambria Math"} @xxxxxxxx {font-family:Calibri} p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif} .MsoChpDefault {font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif} --> </style></p> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20 Professor Ian Cross Chair, Faculty Board of Music Director, Centre for Music & Science Faculty of Music University of Cambridge Cambridge CB3 9DP</pre> </body> </html> --------------BEA6A264E3A480D4C54B4F62--