Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Papers on lack of effect of musical training From: Ian Cross <ic108@xxxxxxxx> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 07:22:02 +0100 X-Cam-ScannerInfo:http://help.uis.cam.ac.uk/email-scanner-virusThis is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------ECF54CFA08012E94588191F3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by edgeum1.it.mcgill.ca id 07H6M8rr031084 I agree: music matters, and it matters ever more in times where those in=20 power have none of it.As Shakespeare put it "The man that hath no music=20 in himself, Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds, Is fit for=20 treasons, stratagems, and spoils; The motions of his spirit are dull as=20 night, And his affections dark as Erebus" As far as definitions of music are concerned, I'd direct interested=20 parties to Tomas Turino's excellent book Music as Social Life (Turino,=20 T. (2008). /Music as social life : the politics of participation/.=20 London: University of Chicago Press), ideas he covered in brief in a=20 later paper (Turino, T. (2009). Four Fields of Music Making and=20 Sustainable Living. /The World of Music, 51/(1), 95-117).As for my own=20 ideas about music =E2=80=94 they evolve, but I'd suggest two papers that = present=20 ideas point in the direction of definitions: Cross, I. (2012). Cognitive Science and the Cultural Nature of Music.=20 /Topics in Cognitive Science, 4/(4), 668-677. Cross, I. (2014). Music and communication in music psychology.=20 /Psychology of Music, 42/(6), 809-819. Ian Cross On 16/08/2020 12:52, Prof. dr Henkjan Honing wrote: > > I agree with Sam, Ian and others that the cognitive benefits of music=20 > tend to be overestimated, often for non-scientific reasons. Similar=20 > effects can be seen in the literature on benefits for health care. I=20 > have been critical in the public debate about these =E2=80=99shouting=20 > ourselves in the foot claims' (mostly in Dutch, e.g. [1]). > > Nevertheless, I believe that showing that /music matters/, is a good=20 > thing, while being appreciative of individual differences (btw=20 > fundamental to a phenomics and genetics of musicality [2]) and=20 > differences across cultures and societies [3]. Music is not just=20 > culture, and it is also not just biology. > > /Henkjan/ > / > / > [1] http://www.mcg.uva.nl/press/press-Pages/page-188.html > [2] https://doi.org/10.1098/rstb.2014.0092 > [3] https://doi.org/10.1525/mp.2020.37.3.185 > >> On 15 Aug 2020, at 12:35, Samuel Mehr <sam@xxxxxxxx=20 >> <mailto:sam@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: >> >> Hi AUDITORY, not that anyone asked, but I agree with Ian, and wrote=20 >> to that effect in this Times op-ed=20 >> https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/opinion/sunday/music-and-success.ht= ml=20 >> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw= ww.nytimes.com%2F2013%2F12%2F22%2Fopinion%2Fsunday%2Fmusic-and-success.ht= ml&data=3D02%7C01%7CH.J.Honing%40uva.nl%7C0d906f2ea78649dd33c208d8419f9c8= a%7Ca0f1cacd618c4403b94576fb3d6874e5%7C1%7C0%7C637331501081167773&sdata=3D= Jhh8gsjXAWkrsNTG38%2BsG035R%2BK693%2B69PFq3LioVoE%3D&reserved=3D0>=20 >> >> >> But even if future studies fail to support the existence of >> music=E2=80=99s cognitive benefits, this should not deter parents = from >> providing their children with music lessons. Our findings in no >> way diminish the intrinsic value of music education, which is so >> obvious that it needs no validation from empirical study. We=E2=80= =99ve >> made literature, history, mathematics and science core elements >> of education. Why should music =E2=80=94 a human activity older th= an the >> written word =E2=80=94 be any different? >> My colleagues and I urge parents, teachers, school administrators >> and policy makers to make music education a part of children=E2=80= =99s >> lives for the musical skills it imparts, the cultural knowledge >> it conveys and, above all, the joy it brings. As Aristotle wrote, >> music =E2=80=9Cmakes the hearts of men glad: so that on this groun= d alone >> we may assume that the young ought to be trained in it.=E2=80=9D >> >> >> -- >> Samuel Mehr >> Department of Psychology >> Harvard University >> *Be a citizen scientist at themusiclab.org=20 >> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ft= hemusiclab.org%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7CH.J.Honing%40uva.nl%7C0d906f2ea78649dd= 33c208d8419f9c8a%7Ca0f1cacd618c4403b94576fb3d6874e5%7C1%7C0%7C63733150108= 1177763&sdata=3DMPaa7piu%2BC3dA%2B5u7qOd3Ug9TqrjdDN%2FGSw0s70OBqk%3D&rese= rved=3D0>!* >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 6:18 AM Ian Cross <ic108@xxxxxxxx=20 >> <mailto:ic108@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: >> >> >> To play devil's advocate here, I'm not sure that the question of >> whether or not musical training has effects beyond music in is >> worth asking, other than in the political attempt to counter the >> philistinism of a utilitarian capitalism that discounts any >> investment in activities that are not obviously of immediate >> economic value. One of the persistent problems with research into >> phenomena such as "effects of musical training" or "genetics of >> musicality" is a failure to recognise the culture-specificity of >> the concepts "musical training" and "musicality".Even in what >> might be construed as the fairly homogeneous musical culture of >> contemporary Europe, different skills are accorded different >> degrees of importance in different national music-educational >> traditions."Musicality" across Europe is something of a >> Frankenstein concept =E2=80=94 and once one moves beyond Europe th= e >> diversity of what might count as "musicality" only >> increases.Hence one would expect to find quite different answers >> to the question that are highly dependent on cultural context =E2=80= =94 >> even if one could identify what one intends by the term "music" >> in the first place. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Ian Cross >> >> On 15/08/2020 07:57, Colette McKAY wrote: >>> note that papers comparing musicians and non-musicians in >>> cross-sectional studies cannot separate effects of music >>> training and innate (genetic based) characteristics. >>> Similarly, in those studies, correlations of effects with amount >>> of music training or engagement in training cannot separate >>> effects of training and innate characteristics. >>> >>> Longitudinal training studies with careful control of >>> expectation bias and innate characteristics are the only valid >>> way to see if the training _itself_=C2=A0is being transferred to >>> other cognitive or sensory domains. Unfortunately most of those >>> studies have low quality research designs and the chance of >>> finding an effect of music training is positively correlated >>> with poor design (inappropriate or no control, no randomisation, >>> wrong statistics). e.g. Sala, G., & Gobet, F. (2020). Cognitive >>> and academic benefits of music training with children: A >>> multilevel meta-analysis. Mem Cognit. >>> doi:10.3758/s13421-020-01060-2 found null effect of music >>> training on cognitive outcomes when the=C2=A0correlation of effec= t >>> size with quality of research design was partialled out of the >>> analysis. >>> >>> There is also a growing literature of genetic studies and twin >>> studies that highlight the genetic differences between people >>> with musical aptitude or not. This link is largely ignored in >>> "music=C2=A0 training" studies >>> >>> best, >>> Colette McKay >> > > . > University of Amsterdam > Faculty of Humanities > Faculty of Science > Prof. dr Henkjan Honing > Professor of Music Cognition > Academic: www.mcg.uva.nl <http://www.mcg.uva.nl> > Professional: www.iedereenismuzikaal.nl <http://www.iedereenismuzikaal.= nl> > New books: www.mitpress.mit.edu/contributors/henkjan-honing=20 > <http://www.mitpress.mit.edu/contributors/henkjan-honing> > . > --=20 Professor Ian Cross Chair, Faculty Board of Music Director, Centre for Music & Science Faculty of Music University of Cambridge Cambridge CB3 9DP --------------ECF54CFA08012E94588191F3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by edgeum1.it.mcgill.ca id 07H6M8rr031084 <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF= -8"> </head> <body> <p> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">I agree: music matters, and it matters ever more in times where those in power have none of it.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:yes">=C2=A0 </span>As Shakespeare put it = "</span><span style=3D"mso-bidi-font-family:Arial"> The man that </span>hath no music in himself, Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds, Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils; The motions of his spirit are dull as night, And his affections dark as Erebus<span style=3D"mso-bidi-font-family:Arial"= >"</span><span style=3D"mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><= /span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">As far as definitions of music are concerned, I'd direct interested parties to Tomas Turino's excellent book Music as Social Life (Turino, T. (2008). <i>Music as social life : the politics of participation</i>. London: University of Chicago Press), ideas he covered in brief in a later paper (Turino, T. (2009). Four Fields of Music Making and Sustainable Living. <i>T= he World of Music, 51</i>(1), 95-117).<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:yes">=C2=A0= </span>As for my own ideas about music =E2=80=94 they evolve, but I'd suggest two papers= that present ideas point in the direction of definitions:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cross, I. (2012). Cognitive Science and the Cultural Nature of Music. <i>Topics in Cognitive Science, 4</i>(4), 668-677.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cross, I. (2014). Music and communication in music psychology. <i>Psychology of Music, 42</i>(6), 809-819.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ian Cross</p> <p> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @xxxxxxxx {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536870145 1107305727 0 0 415 0;} @xxxxxxxx {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536859905 -1073697537 9 0 511 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}size:595.3pt 841.9pt; margin:2.0cm 2.0cm 2.0cm 2.0cm; mso-header-margin:45.35pt; mso-footer-margin:11.35pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;}</style></p> <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 16/08/2020 12:52, Prof. dr Henkjan Honing wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:E43A34AE-661A-4FF9-A901-882974085E29@xxxxxxxx"> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DU= TF-8"> <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div> I agree with Sam, Ian and others that the cognitive benefits of music tend to be overestimated, often for non-scientific reasons. Similar effects can be seen in the literature on benefits for health care. I have been critical in the public debate about these =E2=80=99shouting ourselves in the foot claims' (mostly in Dutch, e= .g. [1]).=C2=A0 <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div> <div class=3D"">Nevertheless, I believe that showing that <i class=3D"">music matters</i>, is a good thing, while being appreciative of individual differences (btw fundamental to a phenomics and genetics of musicality [2]) and differences across cultures and societies [3]. Music is not just culture, and it is also not just biology. <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div> <div class=3D""><i class=3D"">Henkjan</i></div> <div class=3D""><i class=3D""><br class=3D""> </i></div> <div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-style: normal;" class=3D"">[1= ]=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"http://www.mcg.uva.nl/press/press-Pages/page-188.html= " class=3D"" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://www.mcg.uva.nl/pre= ss/press-Pages/page-188.html</a></div> <div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-style: normal;" class=3D"">[2= ]=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://doi.org/10.1098/rstb.2014.0092" class=3D"epub-section__doi__text" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">ht= tps://doi.org/10.1098/rstb.2014.0092</a></div> <div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-style: normal;" class=3D"">[3= ]=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://doi.org/10.1525/mp.2020.37.3.185" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https:/= /doi.org/10.1525/mp.2020.37.3.185</a> <div class=3D"ww-citation-wrap-doi"> <div class=3D"citation-doi"> </div> </div> <div><br class=3D""> <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""> <div class=3D"">On 15 Aug 2020, at 12:35, Samuel Mehr <<= a href=3D"mailto:sam@xxxxxxxx" class=3D"" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">sam@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:</div> <br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> <div class=3D""> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-8" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Hi AUDITORY, not that anyone asked, but I agree with Ian, and wrote to that effect in this Times op-ed=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F= %2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2013%2F12%2F22%2Fopinion%2Fsunday%2Fmusic-and-succes= s.html&data=3D02%7C01%7CH.J.Honing%40uva.nl%7C0d906f2ea78649dd33c208d= 8419f9c8a%7Ca0f1cacd618c4403b94576fb3d6874e5%7C1%7C0%7C637331501081167773= &sdata=3DJhh8gsjXAWkrsNTG38%2BsG035R%2BK693%2B69PFq3LioVoE%3D&res= erved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/opinion/sunday/music-an= d-success.html" shash=3D"S6EcfPdvkudeNT1EmTTEXJ62mdbpWKo7s0FdYQfxPFmqPsBOX+BO1lZyc4KLxBem= p8Piltq5FM7Q6mz2Jho6EoAhi2XVoXlm9No+NEar8zuVRfGMtnkTt+djdhlffLenahXcQuwAm= wDinbnAUThMr0bbzXXTOsmmhmCG4gvFftg=3D" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"" moz-do-not-send=3D"true"= >https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/opinion/sunday/music-and-success.html= </a> <div class=3D""> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">But even if future studies fail to support the existence of music=E2=80=99s cognitive benefits, this should not= deter parents from providing their children with music lessons. Our findings in no way diminish the intrinsic value of music education, which is so obvious that it needs no validation from empirical study. We=E2=80=99ve made literature, history, math= ematics and science core elements of education. Why should music =E2=80=94 a human activity older than the wri= tten word =E2=80=94 be any different?=C2=A0<br class=3D"= "> My colleagues and I urge parents, teachers, school administrators and policy makers to make music education a part of children=E2=80=99s lives for th= e musical skills it imparts, the cultural knowledge it conveys and, above all, the joy it brings. As Aristotle wrote, music =E2=80=9Cmakes the hearts of= men glad: so that on this ground alone we may assume that the young ought to be trained in it.=E2=80=9D<= /blockquote> <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div> <div class=3D""> <div class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signatur= e" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""= > <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D= ""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " class=3D""> <div style=3D"font-s= ize:12.8px" class=3D""> <div style=3D"font-s= ize:12.8px" class=3D""> <div style=3D"font-s= ize:12.8px" class=3D""> <div style=3D"font-s= ize:12.8px" class=3D""> <div style=3D"font-s= ize:12.8px" class=3D""> <div style=3D"font-s= ize:12.8px" class=3D""> <div style=3D"font-s= ize:12.8px" class=3D""> <div style=3D"color:= rgb(136,136,136);font-size:12.8px" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.8px" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""><font class=3D"" color=3D"#666666">= --</font></div> </div> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""><font class=3D"" color=3D"#666666">= Samuel Mehr</font></di= v> <div style=3D"font-s= ize:12.8px" class=3D""><fon= t class=3D"" color=3D"#66666= 6">Department of Psychology</= font></div> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""><span style=3D"color:= rgb(102,102,102);font-size:12.8px" class=3D"">Harv= ard University</spa= n></div> <div dir=3D"ltr= " style=3D"font-size:12.8px" class=3D""><span style=3D"color:= rgb(102,102,102);font-size:12.8px" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Be a citizen scientist at=C2= =A0<a href=3D"https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F= %2Fthemusiclab.org%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7CH.J.Honing%40uva.nl%7C0d906f2e= a78649dd33c208d8419f9c8a%7Ca0f1cacd618c4403b94576fb3d6874e5%7C1%7C0%7C637= 331501081177763&sdata=3DMPaa7piu%2BC3dA%2B5u7qOd3Ug9TqrjdDN%2FGSw0s70= OBqk%3D&reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://themusiclab.org/" shash=3D"tqdpUJT5RBKGcXoVHT/HxTvEpz9XXaMIKbdbc38NyQDNN0PBsDCMaZgz9CJSCgSy= 8fb8CEjbjXW1M+sxe8jbH0RPIXy62m/cZxSWynQxuvMNGTrpp5yse7qKFUvt4+0u1TEcmFySs= hPjB+VwWuhO8z63z8LEYAlvdeS8PWTQgNo=3D" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">themusiclab.org</a>= !</b></span></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <br class=3D""> </div> </div> </div> <br class=3D""> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 15, 2= 020 at 6:18 AM Ian Cross <<a href=3D"mailto:ic108@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">ic108@xxxxxxxx= </a>> wrote:<br class=3D""> </div> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0= px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div class=3D""> <div class=3D""> <br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">To play devil's advocate here, I'm not sure that the question of whether or not musical training has effects beyond music in is worth asking, other than in the political attempt to counter the philistinism of a utilitarian capitalism that discounts any investment in activities that are not obviously of immediate economic value. One of the persistent problems with research into phenomena such as "effects of musical training" or "genetics of musicality" is a failure to recognise the culture-specificity of the concepts "musical training" and "musicality".<spa= n class=3D"">=C2=A0 </span>Even in what might be construed as the fairly homogeneous musical culture of contemporary Europe, different skills are accorded different degrees of importance in different national music-educational traditions.<= span class=3D"">=C2=A0 </span>"Musicality" across Eu= rope is something of a Frankenstein concept =E2=80=94 = and once one moves beyond Europe the diversity of what might count as "musicality" only increases.<= span class=3D"">=C2=A0 </span>Hence one would expect= to find quite different answers to the question that are highly dependent on cultural context =E2= =80=94 even if one could identify what one intends by the term "music" in the first place.</p> <div class=3D"">=C2=A0<br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best,</p> <span class=3D"">Ian Cross</span> <div class=3D""> <br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"> </div> <div class=3D"">On 15/08/2020 07:57, Colette McKAY wrote:<br class=3D""> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Tahoma= ; font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">note that papers comparing musicians and non-musicians in cross-sectional studies cannot separate effects of music training and innate (genetic based) characteristics. <div class=3D"">Similarly, in those studies, correlations of effects with amount of music training or engagement in training cannot separate effects of training and innate characteristics.</div> <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div> <div class=3D"">Longitudinal training studies with careful control of expectation bias and innate characteristics are the only valid way to see if the training=C2=A0<u class=3D""= >itself</u>=C2=A0is being transferred to other cognitive or sensory domains. Unfortunately most of those studies have low quality research designs and the chance of finding an effect of music training is positively correlated with poor design (inappropriate or no control, no randomisation, wrong statistics). e.g.=C2=A0<= span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14= .6667px" class=3D"">Sala, G., & Gobet, F. (2020). Cognitive and academic benefits of music training with children: A multilevel meta-analysis. Mem Cognit. doi:10.3758/s13421-020-01060-2=C2=A0=C2=A0<= /span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6667px" class=3D"">f= </span><span style=3D"font-size:14.6667px" class=3D"">ou= nd null effect of music training on cognitive outcomes when the=C2=A0correlation of effec= t size with quality of research design was partialled out of the analysis.</span></div= > <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> <div class=3D"">There is also a growing literature of genetic studies and twin studies that highlight the genetic differences between people with musical aptitude or not. This link is largely ignored in "music=C2=A0 training" studies</= div> <div class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div> <div class=3D"">best,</div> <div class=3D"">Colette McKay</div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br class=3D""> <div class=3D""> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color= : rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); 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text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"= "> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"text-align= : start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wra= p: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode= : space; line-break: after-white-space= ;" class=3D""> <div style=3D"text-a= lign: start; text-indent: 0px;"> <div style=3D"orphan= s: 2; widows: 2; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-top: 0px;" class=3D"= "> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"orphan= s: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mo= de: space; line-break: after-white-spa= ce;" class=3D""> <div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-w= rap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mo= de: space; line-break: after-white-spa= ce;" class=3D""> <div style=3D"margin= -bottom: 0px; margin-top: 0px;" class=3D"= "> <div style=3D"caret-= color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ca= ps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration= : none; -webkit-text-st= roke-width: 0px; font-family: Courier; font-size: 14px;" class=3D""> <div class=3D""= ><span style=3D"font-size: 10px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-family: Calibri;" class=3D"">.</s= pan></div> </div> <div style=3D"caret-= color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ca= ps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration= : none; -webkit-text-st= roke-width: 0px; font-family: Courier; font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><spa= n style=3D"font-weight: bold; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">Univ= ersity of Amsterdam</s= pan></div> <div style=3D"caret-= color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ca= ps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration= : none; -webkit-text-st= roke-width: 0px; font-family: Courier; font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><spa= n style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">Facu= lty of Humanities=C2= =A0</span></div> <div style=3D"caret-= color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ca= ps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration= : none; -webkit-text-st= roke-width: 0px; font-family: Courier; font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><spa= n style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">Facu= lty of Science</spa= n></div> <div style=3D"caret-= color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ca= ps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration= : none; -webkit-text-st= roke-width: 0px; font-family: Courier; font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><spa= n style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">=C2=A0</span></div> <div style=3D"caret-= color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ca= ps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration= : none; -webkit-text-st= roke-width: 0px; font-family: Courier; font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><spa= n style=3D"font-weight: bold; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">Prof. dr Henkjan Honing</span></= div> <div style=3D"caret-= color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ca= ps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration= : none; -webkit-text-st= roke-width: 0px; font-family: Courier; font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><spa= n style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;" class=3D"">Prof= essor of Music Cognition</span= ></div> <div style=3D"caret-= color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ca= ps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration= : none; -webkit-text-st= roke-width: 0px; font-family: Courier; font-weight: normal;" class=3D""><spa= n style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">=C2=A0= </span></div> <div class=3D""= ><font class=3D"" face=3D"Calibri= " color=3D"#666666"><span style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">Academic:=C2= =A0<a href=3D"http://= www.mcg.uva.nl" class=3D"" moz-do-not-send= =3D"true">www.mcg.uva.nl</a> =C2=A0</span></= font></div> <div class=3D""= ><font class=3D"" face=3D"Calibri= " color=3D"#666666"><span style=3D"font-size: 12px;" class=3D"">Professiona= l:=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.iedereenismuzikaal.nl" class=3D"" moz-do-not-send=3D"t= rue">www.iedereenismuzikaal.nl</a></span></font></div> <div style=3D"caret-= color: rgb(0, 0, 0); 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font-family: Calibri;" class=3D"">.</s= pan></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <br class=3D""> </div> </div> </blockquote> <pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20 Professor Ian Cross Chair, Faculty Board of Music Director, Centre for Music & Science Faculty of Music University of Cambridge Cambridge CB3 9DP</pre> </body> </html> --------------ECF54CFA08012E94588191F3--