Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Recap: Origin of the 'Bregman picture'? From: Koichi MORI <kmori@xxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 18:46:13 +0900Dear Fabian, The picture is a cute one. Thank you for making it universally available = with CC-BY. However, the modeled "ears" seem to lack the structures corresponding to = the external ears and the tonotopic organization of the inner ear along t= he basilar membrane. Without them the modeled ears are more like reptilian than mammalian, whi= ch may explain the difficulty of scene analysis with those two short chan= nels and the two small square handkerchiefs. :-) And the distance between the channels is most likely too small for the ex= pected detection ranges of events. Good modeling is difficult in general, but the picture makes the relevant= factors of auditory scene analysis very visible and gives a good opportu= nity for thought experiments. Best, Koichi Brinkmann, Fabian, Dr. wrote on 2020/06/24 18:23: > Hi Chris, >=20 > my humble friend who drew it wanted to stay anonym. I guess for referen= cing, you can either take my thesis (https://doi.org/10.14279/depositonce= -8510, page 3) or reference as 'CC-BY, anonymous artist'. I attached a hi= gh res version for printing. >=20 > Could you send me a copy of the chapter when it's finished? I'd like to= show it to my friend to let her know her work is appreciated :) >=20 > Best, Fabian >=20 > On 6/22/2020 15:37, Krzysztof Basi=C5=84ski wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I=E2=80=99m Chris, I=E2=80=99m a researcher from Gda=C5=84sk, Poland. = I=E2=80=99m currently working on a book chapter on neural bases of audito= ry perception and I would like to use the picture you posted some time ag= e on the AUDITORY list. Would that be okay? Could you provide the name of= the person who drew it so I can give credit where it=E2=80=99s due? >> >> Thanks, >> Chris >> >> >> -- >> Krzysztof Basi=C5=84ski, PhD >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Psychology >> Medical University of Gda=C5=84sk, Poland >> http://mug.edu.pl < http://quarantine.tu-berlin.de:32224/?dmVyPTEuMDAx= JiY3NzkyNjc1NTRiMzYzNmI1ZD01RUYwQjQyMV81OTE4XzE4ODExXzEmJjM4ODA1NTI4ZDY3M= mIxNj0xMjIyJiZ1cmw9aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRm11ZyUyRWVkdSUyRXBs>=C2=A0| http://kb= as.gumed.edu.pl < http://quarantine.tu-berlin.de:32224/?dmVyPTEuMDAxJiY3N= zkyNjc1NTRiMzYzNmIzYz01RUYwQjQyMV81OTE4XzE4ODExXzEmJjQ4ZTU4MTk4ZTY3NjgwMz= 0xMjIyJiZ1cmw9aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRmtiYXMlMkVndW1lZCUyRWVkdSUyRXBs> >> >>> On 27 Feb 2019, at 22:44, Brinkmann, Fabian <fabian.brinkmann@xxxxxxxx= IN.DE <mailto:fabian.brinkmann@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear List, >>> >>> thanks for the replies - also off list. Here=E2=80=99s a quick recap = and a free version of the picture that a friend of mine drew (CC-BY 4.0 l= icensed). >>> >>> Fell free to use it with a reference to Bregmans book, chapter 1, p. = 5-6 (citation below). The original picture was printed in old editions of= Goldstein's Sensation and Perception text book (at least: German version= of Goldstein, 4th edition, 1997, Spektrum. Page 352, Figure 9.1., and fi= fth edition, 1999, Figure 12.1, p. 350), but is not included in the 9th e= dition and probably also not in the 10th. >>> >>> I=E2=80=99d be grateful for a shaded or colored version of my friends= picture. If anyone who liked to use it has decent Gimp/Photoshop skills = (and time) - I=E2=80=99d be happy to provide a high-res version for this = purpose :) >>> >>> Best, >>> Fabian >>> >>> ---- >>> >>> =E2=80=9CImagine you are on the edge of a lake and a friend challenge= s you to play a game. The game is: Your friend digs two narrow channels u= p from the=C2=A0side of the lake. Each is a few feet long and a few inche= s wide and they are spaced a few feet apart. Halfway up each one, your fr= iend stretches a=C2=A0handkerchief and fastens it to the sides of the cha= nnel. As waves reach the side of the lake they travel up to the channels = and cause the two=C2=A0handkerchiefs to go into motion. You are allowed t= o look only=20 >>> at the handkerchiefs and from their motions to answer a series of que= istions: How=C2=A0many boats are there on the lake and where are they? Wh= ich is the most powerful one? Which one is closer? Is the wind blowing? H= as any large=C2=A0object been dropped suddenly into the lake? Solving thi= s problem seems impossible, but it is a strict analogy to the problem fac= ed by our auditory=C2=A0system.=E2=80=9D >>> >>> <BregmanLake.jpg> >>> >>>> On 22. Feb 2019, at 18:49, Ciocca, Valter (AUDI) <vciocca@xxxxxxxx= H.UBC.CA <mailto:vciocca@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I do not know about the picture, but the analogy is from Al Bregman = (which is why you may have heard it being referenced to his book). >>>> Best, >>>> Valter >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 20-02-2019, at 11:57 AM, Andreas Widmann <widmann@xxxxxxxx= <mailto:widmann@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> was also pointed to Goldstein=E2=80=99s =E2=80=98Sensation and per= ception=E2=80=99 where I couldn't find it neither. >>>>> It appears in the German version of Goldstein, 4th edition, 1997, S= pektrum. Page 352, Figure 9.1. There are no image credits for the figure. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Andreas >>>>> >>>>>> Am 19.02.2019 um 12:35 schrieb Brinkmann, Fabian <fabian.brinkmann= @xxxxxxxx <mailto:fabian.brinkmann@xxxxxxxx>>: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear List, >>>>>> >>>>>> does anyone know the origin of the attached picture? It is usually= referenced to Albert Bregman=E2=80=99s work on auditory scene analysis, = however, I fail to find it=C2=A0in his book. I was also pointed to Goldst= ein=E2=80=99s =E2=80=98Sensation and perception=E2=80=99 where I couldn't= find it neither. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best >>>>>> Fabian >>>>>> >>>>>> <Bregman_ASA.jpg> >>>> >>> >> >=20 --=20 MORI, Koichi, M.D., Ph.D. mori-koichi@xxxxxxxx / mori-koichi@xxxxxxxx Tel:(+81)4-2995-3100, FAX:(+81)4-2995-3672 Rehabilitation Services Bureau of National Rehabilitation Center for Persons with Disabilities (NRCD) 4-1 Namiki, Tokorozawa, Saitama 359-8555, Japan