[AUDITORY] Summary: singing together online ("Patel, Aniruddh D." )

Subject: [AUDITORY] Summary: singing together online From: "Patel, Aniruddh D." <a.patel@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 22:19:49 +0000 --_000_E06FF38A806E884E9F935E87BFE5694C0142617F17tabvmexdag1mb_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear List, Many thanks to those who responded to my query about tools for singing toge= ther online. As usual, this list is an amazing resource. A summary of responses is below. Best, Ani Patel Original query (April 24, 2020): Does any know of (or is anyone working on) software that allows people to s= ing together online? I believe Zoom is hopeless for this. There are plenty of videos where musicians "play music together" online whi= le in different locations (such as this nice one: https://www.telegraph.co.= uk/technology/2020/03/23/rotterdam-philharmonic-musicians-collaborate-strea= m-beethovens/), but they aren't playing together in real time. They record= their parts separately and someone edits the parts together. -- Responses: From Jonathan Berger, brg@xxxxxxxx<mailto:brg@xxxxxxxx> We've been teaching jackTrip ( https://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/jacktrip/ ) to users. Chris Chafe is = the lead on this. The latency is small and the sound quality excellent. On = the industry side SMULE has virtual real-time Sing application. https://bl= og.smule.com/go-live-using-livejam-on-smule -- From Chris Chafe, cc@xxxxxxxx<mailto:cc@xxxxxxxx> I'm teaching a class specifically to support ensembles who need to go onlin= e with uncompressed audio. Feel free to join, peruse or just ask for a hand= . https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~cc/deck.js/153bSpring2020 -- From Gunter Windau, G.Windau@xxxxxxxx<mailto:G.Windau@xxxxxxxx> I use Jamkazam https://www.jamkazam.com/<Jamkazamhttps://www.jamkazam.com/= > for playing music together over the internet with friends from my big ban= d. It works very well, latency is usually less than 30 ms, but if more than= about 6 people join a session, synchronization starts suffering. However, I have to add, that the last weeks or so, Jamkazam apparently suff= ers from the huge number of musicians that started to use the software. Thi= s results in participants not being able to send or receive audio. On busy = days like Sundays it is sometimes impossible to get a working connection fo= r all participants. In their forum they write that they are working to expa= nd their server infrastructure. -- From Tony Miller, antonio.miller@xxxxxxxx<mailto:antonio.miller@xxxxxxxx> Try https://audiomovers.com/ seems to work well and is high quality and low= latency. Short explanation video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DOmJUOkf0kE4 -- From Prof Leslie Smith, l.s.smith@xxxxxxxx<mailto:l.s.smith@xxxxxxxx= .uk> Look at Jamulus, http://llcon.sourceforge.net Multiple servers - but you need to be reasonably near to the one you are us= ing (where the metric for near is one of latency of the connection between = you & the server). Intended for musicians jamming together, it does work, though it's not wond= erful. Depends a lot on the latency of the internet connections. Uses UDP (= not TCP) which its correct. And yes, they (we?) are playing together in real time. I've used it. -- From Volker Hohmann, volker.hohmann@xxxxxxxx<mailto:volker.hohmann@xxxxxxxx= UNI-OLDENBURG.DE> In addition to other tools mentioned before, I would like to mention the re= mote collaboration box a colleague of mine, Giso Grimm, designed together w= ith his ensemble. They use it almost every day for playing together. The ha= rdware is low-cost (Raspi), and all software is open-source. To set it up, = however, a Linux person is needed. You may want to check https://github.com= /gisogrimm/ovbox -- From Olivier Crouzet, olivier.crouzet@xxxxxxxx<mailto:olivier.crouzet= @xxxxxxxx> You will find a list of such tools if you look for "real time music jam int= ernet" (or some combination of such keywords). I haven't used any of them y= et so can't comment on any one. I've read a little bit about Jamulus (http:= //llcon.sourceforge.net/) which is multiplatform but there may be other sol= utions and I can't tell about how it compares to others. -- From James Beauchamp, jwbeauch@xxxxxxxx<mailto:jwbeauch@xxxxxxxx> For me, the term Telematic Music Performance comes to mind. There's a web s= ite at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telematic_performance that discusses the meth= od. Another one is https://ccrma.stanford.edu/workshops/nmp2010/lectures/we= aver-nmp2010.pdf . The researcher/performer that I know about who has used that method is Jona= s Braasch, who teaches at Renssellaer Polytechnic Institute . He gave a tal= k "An automated calibration system for telematic music applications" at the= Fall, 2008 ASA meeting in Miami, and published the paper "Telematic system= s seen from a music instrument building perspective" in the Nov., 2016 issu= e of JASA. -- From Matthias Heyne, m.heyne@xxxxxxxx<mailto:m.heyne@xxxxxxxx> I saw your question on AUDITORY LIST about singing together and we've been = trying to get something similar up and running for the MIT Festival Jazz En= semble. The ovbox tool seems to be promising and I'm hoping that all the sm= art members of the ensemble with various engineering and programming backgr= ounds will help get this running for us and my plan is to make that informa= tion publicly accessible as well if we are successful. -- End of responses. --_000_E06FF38A806E884E9F935E87BFE5694C0142617F17tabvmexdag1mb_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr= osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:= //www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> Dear List,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Many thanks to those who responded to my query about= tools for singing together online.  As usual, this list is an amazing= resource.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> A summary of responses is below.<o:p></o:p> Best,<o:p></o:p> Ani Patel<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Original query (April 24, 2020):<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Does any know of (or is anyone working on) software = that allows people to sing together online?  I believe Zoom is hopeles= s for this.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> There are plenty of videos where musicians “pl= ay music together” online while in different locations (such as this = nice one: <a href=3D"https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/03/23/rotterdam-phil= harmonic-musicians-collaborate-stream-beethovens/"> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/03= /23/rotterdam-philharmonic-musicians-collaborate-stream-beethovens/<= /a>), but they aren’t playing together in real time.  They recor= d their parts separately and someone edits the parts together.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> --<o:p></o:p> Responses:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> From Jonathan Berger, <a href=3D"mailto:brg@xxxxxxxx">brg@xxxxxxxx</a> <o:p><= /o:p> We've been teaching jackTrip <o:p></o:p> ( <a href=3D"https://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/jacktrip/">= https://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/jacktrip/</a> ) to users. Chris Chafe is the lead on this. The latency is small and the sound= quality excellent. On the industry side SMULE has virtual real-time Sing a= pplication.  <a href=3D"https://blog.smule.com/go-live-using-livejam-on-smule">ht= tps://blog.smule.com/go-live-using-livejam-on-smule</a><o:p></o:p><= /p> --<o:p></o:p> From Chris Chafe, <a href=3D"mailto:cc@xxxxxxxx= d.EDU">cc@xxxxxxxx</a><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I'm teaching a class specifically to support ens= embles who need to go online with uncompressed audio. Feel free to join, pe= ruse or just ask for a hand. <a href=3D"https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~cc/deck.js/153bSpring2020">https://c= crma.stanford.edu/~cc/deck.js/153bSpring2020</a><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> --<o:p></o:p> From Gunter Windau, <a href=3D"mailto:G.Windau@xxxxxxxx= rs.ru.nl"> G.Windau@xxxxxxxx</a> <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I use Jamkazam  <a href=3D"Jamkazamhttps://www.= jamkazam.com/">https://www.jamkazam.com/</a> for playing music togethe= r over the internet with friends from my big band. It works very well, late= ncy is usually less than 30 ms, but if more than about 6 people join a session, synchronization starts suffering. <o:p= ></o:p> However, I have to add, that the last weeks or so, J= amkazam apparently suffers from the huge number of musicians that started t= o use the software. This results in participants not being able to send or = receive audio. On busy days like Sundays it is sometimes impossible to get a working connection for all participant= s. In their forum they write that they are working to expand their server i= nfrastructure.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> --<o:p></o:p> From Tony Miller, <a href=3D"mailto:antonio.miller@xxxxxxxx= mail.com"> antonio.miller@xxxxxxxx</a> <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Try <a href=3D"https://audiomovers.com/">https:= //audiomovers.com/</a> seems to work well and is high quality and low = latency.<o:p></o:p> Short explanation video <a href=3D"https://www.= youtube.com/watch?v=3DOmJUOkf0kE4">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DOmJUOk= f0kE4</a><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> --<o:p></o:p> From Prof Leslie Smith, <a href=3D"mailto:l.s.smi= th@xxxxxxxx"> l.s.smith@xxxxxxxx</a><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Look at Jamulus, <a href=3D"http://llcon.sourcefo= rge.net">http://llcon.sourceforge.net</a><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Multiple servers - but you need to be reasonably = near to the one you are using (where the metric for near is one of latency = of the connection between you & the server).<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Intended for musicians jamming together, it does = work, though it's not wonderful. Depends a lot on the latency of the intern= et connections. Uses UDP (not TCP) which its correct.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> And yes, they (we?) are playing together in real = time. I've used it.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> --<o:p></o:p> From Volker Hohmann, <a href=3D"mailto:volker.hohman= n@xxxxxxxx"> volker.hohmann@xxxxxxxx</a> <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> In addition to other tools mentioned before, I would= like to mention the remote collaboration box a colleague of mine, Giso Gri= mm, designed together with his ensemble. They use it almost every day for p= laying together. The hardware is low-cost (Raspi), and all software is open-source. To set it up, however, a Linux p= erson is needed. You may want to check <a href=3D"https://github.com/gisogrimm/ovbox">https://github.com/gisogrimm= /ovbox</a><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> --<o:p></o:p> From Olivier Crouzet, <a href=3D"mailto:olivier.crou= zet@xxxxxxxx"> olivier.crouzet@xxxxxxxx</a> <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> You will find a list of such tools if you look fo= r "real time music jam internet" (or some combination of such key= words). I haven't used any of them yet so can't comment on any one. I've re= ad a little bit about Jamulus (<a href=3D"http://llcon.sourceforge.net/">ht= tp://llcon.sourceforge.net/</a>) which is multiplatform but there may be other solutions and I can't tell a= bout how it compares to others.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> --<o:p></o:p> From James Beauchamp, <a href=3D"mailto:jwbeauch@xxxxxxxx= inois.edu"> jwbeauch@xxxxxxxx</a> <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> For me, the term Telematic Music Performance comes t= o mind. There’s a web site at<o:p></o:p> <a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telematic_p= erformance">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telematic_performance</a> th= at discusses the method. Another one is <a href=3D"https://ccrma.stanf= ord.edu/workshops/nmp2010/lectures/weaver-nmp2010.pdf">https://ccrma.stanfo= rd.edu/workshops/nmp2010/lectures/weaver-nmp2010.pdf</a> . <o:p><= /o:p> The researcher/performer that I know about who has u= sed that method is Jonas Braasch, who teaches at Renssellaer Polytechn= ic Institute . He gave a talk “An automated calibration system f= or telematic music applications” at the Fall, 2008 ASA meeting in Miami, and published the paper “Telematic system= s seen from a music instrument building perspective” in the Nov., 201= 6 issue of JASA.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> --<o:p></o:p> From Matthias Heyne,  <a href=3D"mailto:m.heyne= @xxxxxxxx">m.heyne@xxxxxxxx</a><o:p></o:p> I saw your question on AUDITORY LIST about singing together and we've be= en trying to get something similar up and running for the MIT Festival Jazz= Ensemble. The ovbox tool seems to be promising and I'm hoping that all the= smart members of the ensemble with various engineering and programming backgrounds will help get this running= for us and my plan is to make that information publicly accessible as well= if we are successful.<o:p></o:p> --<o:p></o:p> End of responses.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> </div> </body> </html> --_000_E06FF38A806E884E9F935E87BFE5694C0142617F17tabvmexdag1mb_--

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