Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Research in Auditory Processing From: "Huron, David" <huron.1@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2019 12:42:57 +0000 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--_000_CY4PR01MB2216EE5E463673C46532105AB84A0CY4PR01MB2216prod_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some might find my video lecture "The Pitch Height Metaphor" of interest. = https://vimeo.com/34747210. The video discusses pertinent literature, inclu= ding Pratt (1930), Trimble (1934), Roffler & Butler (1968), Hofman & Van O= pstal (1998), Hofman, Vlaming, Termeer & Opstal (2002), Bruce & Walker (201= 0), Choi & Walker (2010). I point to the importance of learning, but learni= ng alone doesn't account for the majority association of high pitch with h= igh elevation across cultures. HRTFs appear to play a role. David Huron The Pitch-Height Metaphor<https://vimeo.com/34747210> vimeo.com Why do we call high pitches "high" and low pitches "low"? ________________________________ From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx>= on behalf of Pawe=B3 Ku=9Cmierek <pawel.kusmierek@xxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2019 5:37:38 AM To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Research in Auditory Processing I have not been following this thread so far, but looking back I do not see= two JASA papers of Roffler and Bulter from 1968 mentioned, they are probab= ly relevant... If they have been mentioned, sorry for the redundancy! Pawel On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 12:06 AM Jonathan Berger <brg@xxxxxxxx<ma= ilto:brg@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: Unless you are a 'cellist. When my 4 year old daughter started playing she = was flummoxed by the notion that playing lower pitch meant rising on the fi= ngerboard and vice versa. - jonathan --- Jonathan Berger The Denning Family Provostial Professor in Music Bass University Fellow in Undergraduate Education Stanford University http://jonathanberger.net On 2019-03-12 04:56, Axel Roebel wrote: Hello On 11/03/19 13:01, Peter Lennox wrote: But I'm not sure that it's as intuitive to equate higher pitch=3D greater q= uantity. I mean, I can grasp it visually (I suppose one could try for an ev= olutionary argument =96 a higher pile=3D a greater quantity, or some such). I am all for the evolutionary argument! In fact if you see this from a phys= ical perspective (us living in a world) then larger bodies make lower sounds. So the relation high =3D large cannot be linked to a predominant wo= rld experience (besides for musicians - see Neuhoff 2002 (:-) - but also fo= r musicians a high note is produced by a smaller instrument, so it depends on= the context the person uses to interpret the data). For visual presentations it seems hard to find situations where you need to look up fo= r something smaller. Best Axel --_000_CY4PR01MB2216EE5E463673C46532105AB84A0CY4PR01MB2216prod_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1= 250"> <style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margi= n-bottom:0;} --></style> </head> <body dir=3D"ltr"> <div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font= -family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir=3D"ltr"> <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Some might find my video lecture = "The Pitch Height Metaphor" of interest. <a href=3D"https:/= /vimeo.com/34747210" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk28324" previewremoved= =3D"true">https://vimeo.com/34747210</a>. The video discusses pertinent literature, including Pratt (1930), Trimble (1934), &n= bsp;Roffler & Butler (1968), Hofman & Van Opstal (1998), Hofman, Vl= aming, Termeer & Opstal (2002), Bruce & Walker (2010), Choi & W= alker (2010). I point to the importance of learning, but learning alone doesn't account for the majority association of high pitch with high= elevation across cultures. HRTFs appear to play a role.</p> <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br> </p> <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">David Huron</p> <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br> </p> <div id=3D"LPBorder_BVTaHR0cHM6Ly92aW1lby5jb20vMzQ3NDcyMTA._15524803024630.= 8244858788881124" style=3D"margin-bottom: 20px; overflow: auto; width: 100%= ; text-indent: 0px;"> <table id=3D"LPContainer_15524803024550.7026429182550319" role=3D"presentat= ion" cellspacing=3D"0" style=3D"width: 90%; background-color: rgb(255, 255,= 255); position: relative; overflow: auto; padding-top: 20px; padding-botto= m: 20px; margin-top: 20px; border-top-width: 1px; border-top-style: dotted;= border-top-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bot= tom-style: dotted; border-bottom-color: rgb(200, 200, 200);"> <tbody> <tr valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-spacing: 0px;"> <td id=3D"TextCell_15524803024610.7241335586969485" colspan=3D"2" style=3D"= vertical-align: top; position: relative; padding: 0px; display: table-cell;= "> <div id=3D"LPRemovePreviewContainer_15524803024610.0052792305612843204"></d= iv> <div id=3D"LPTitle_15524803024610.5855980227023897" style=3D"top: 0px; colo= r: rgb(187, 0, 0); font-weight: normal; font-size: 21px; font-family: wf_se= goe-ui_light, "Segoe UI Light", "Segoe WP Light", "= ;Segoe UI", "Segoe WP", Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; line-heig= ht: 21px;"> <a id=3D"LPUrlAnchor_15524803024610.044828813934932765" href=3D"https://vim= eo.com/34747210" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">The Pit= ch-Height Metaphor</a></div> <div id=3D"LPMetadata_15524803024610.23715574029536513" style=3D"margin: 10= px 0px 16px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-weight: normal; font-family: w= f_segoe-ui_normal, "Segoe UI", "Segoe WP", Tahoma, Aria= l, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 14px;"> vimeo.com</div> <div id=3D"LPDescription_15524803024620.5356425405844177" style=3D"display:= block; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-weight: normal; font-family: wf_seg= oe-ui_normal, "Segoe UI", "Segoe WP", Tahoma, Arial, sa= ns-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; max-height: 100px; overflow: = hidden;"> Why do we call high pitches "high" and low pitches "low"= ;?</div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> <br> <br> <p></p> </div> <hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1"> <div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st= yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> AUDITORY - Research i= n Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> on behalf of Pawe=B3= Ku=9Cmierek <pawel.kusmierek@xxxxxxxx><br> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 13, 2019 5:37:38 AM<br> <b>To:</b> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: Research in Auditory Processing</font> <div> </div> </div> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr">I have not been following this thread so far, but looking = back I do not see two JASA papers of Roffler and Bulter from 1968 mentioned= , they are probably relevant... If they have been mentioned, sorry for the = redundancy! <div><br> </div> <div>Pawel</div> </div> <br> <div class=3D"x_gmail_quote"> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 12:06 AM Jo= nathan Berger <<a href=3D"mailto:brg@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blan= k">brg@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord= er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex"> <u></u> <div style=3D"font-size:10pt; font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif"> <p>Unless you are a 'cellist. When my 4 year old daughter started playing s= he was flummoxed by the notion that playing lower pitch meant rising on the= fingerboard and vice versa.</p> <p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt">- jonathan </span></p> <div>---<br> <pre>Jonathan Berger<br>The Denning Family Provostial Professor in Music<br= ><span>Bass University Fellow in Undergraduate Education</span><br>Stanford= University<br><br><a title=3D"http://jonathanberger.net" href=3D"http://jo= nathanberger.net" target=3D"_blank">http://jonathanberger.net</a></pre> </div> <p>On 2019-03-12 04:56, Axel Roebel wrote:</p> <blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"padding-left:5px; border-left:2px solid = rgb(16,16,255); margin-left:5px"> <pre>Hello On 11/03/19 13:01, Peter Lennox wrote:</pre> <blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"padding-left:5px; border-left:2px solid = rgb(16,16,255); margin-left:5px"> But I'm not sure that it's as intuitive to equate higher pitch=3D greater q= uantity. I mean, I can grasp it visually (I suppose one could try for an ev= olutionary argument =96 a higher pile=3D a greater quantity, or some such).= </blockquote> <pre>I am all for the evolutionary argument! In fact if you see this from a= physical perspective (us living in a world) then larger bodies make lower sounds. So the relation high =3D large cannot be linked to a predominant wo= rld experience (besides for musicians - see Neuhoff 2002 (:-) - but also fo= r musicians a high note is produced by a smaller instrument, so it depends on= the context the person uses to interpret the data). For visual presentations it seems hard to find situations where you need to look up fo= r something smaller. Best Axel </pre> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_CY4PR01MB2216EE5E463673C46532105AB84A0CY4PR01MB2216prod_--