Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] [widmann@xxxxxxxx: Re: [AUDITORY] Origin of the 'Bregman picture'?] From: "R. Zatorre, Dr." <robert.zatorre@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 01:29:59 +0000 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--_000_YQXPR0101MB1352850D0293E9F04304D5F581780YQXPR0101MB1352_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Peter (and list) Although I actually never saw this drawing before, I = heard Al talk about the idea many times (I don't recall ever seeing him use= the sketch either, it was just a verbal description). His idea was simple = but clever: The observer on the beach is supposed to look at the movement o= f the things floating in the water of the two channels carved into the sand= , and from that alone, deduce the objects that are in the ocean, their dist= ance, motion, direction, and so forth. "You are no doubt thinking 'Why that= 's impossible!' " Al would say, and the audience would nod their agreement;= then he would go on to point out that this is the computational problem th= e auditory system has to solve all the time: the movement up and down of th= e water in the channels represents the changes in air pressure arriving at = the two ears; from this alone, the auditory system must figure out the pres= ence of sources out in the environment along with their motion etc, while o= f course ignoring background noise (the analogue of which would be wind cau= sing ripples in the ocean). It's a fun adjunct for an undergrad class on perception I think. best wishes Robert Robert Zatorre Montreal Neurological Institute McGill University 514-398-8903 fax: 514-398-1338 www.zlab.mcgill.ca ________________________________ From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx>= on behalf of Peter P. <peterparker@xxxxxxxx> Sent: February 21, 2019 8:32 AM To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: [widmann@xxxxxxxx: Re: [AUDITORY] Origin of the 'Bregman pic= ture'?] Forgive me, but what is this picture about? I am curious but don't have Goldstein's book at hand. Thanks! Peter ----- Forwarded message from Andreas Widmann <widmann@xxxxxxxx> ----- From: Andreas Widmann <widmann@xxxxxxxx> Reply-To: Andreas Widmann <widmann@xxxxxxxx> To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Origin of the 'Bregman picture'? Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:57:25 +0100 Sender: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx= A> > was also pointed to Goldstein=92s =91Sensation and perception=92 where I= couldn't find it neither. It appears in the German version of Goldstein, 4th edition, 1997, Spektrum.= Page 352, Figure 9.1. There are no image credits for the figure. Best, Andreas > Am 19.02.2019 um 12:35 schrieb Brinkmann, Fabian <fabian.brinkmann@xxxxxxxx= LIN.DE>: > > Dear List, > > does anyone know the origin of the attached picture? It is usually refere= nced to Albert Bregman=92s work on auditory scene analysis, however, I fail= to find it in his book. I was also pointed to Goldstein=92s =91Sensation a= nd perception=92 where I couldn't find it neither. > > Best > Fabian > > <Bregman_ASA.jpg> ----- End forwarded message ----- --_000_YQXPR0101MB1352850D0293E9F04304D5F581780YQXPR0101MB1352_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1= 252"> <style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margi= n-bottom:0;} --></style> </head> <body dir=3D"ltr"> <div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:14pt;color:#000000;font= -family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir=3D"ltr"> <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Dear Peter (and list) Althou= gh I actually never saw this drawing before, I heard Al talk about the idea= many times (I don't recall ever seeing him use the sketch either, it = was just a verbal description). His idea was simple but clever: The observer on the beach is supposed to look at the mo= vement of the things floating in the water of the two channels carved into = the sand, and from that alone, deduce the objects that are in the ocean, th= eir distance, motion, direction, and so forth. "You are no doubt thinking 'Why that's impossible!'&nbs= p;" Al would say, and the audience would nod their agreement; then he = would go on to point out that this is the computational problem the auditor= y system has to solve all the time: the movement up and down of the water in the channels represents the changes in air pre= ssure arriving at the two ears; from this alone, the auditory system must f= igure out the presence of sources out in the environment along with their m= otion etc, while of course ignoring background noise (the analogue of which would be wind causing ripples in t= he ocean).</p> <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br> </p> <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">It's a fun adjunct for an undergr= ad class on perception I think.</p> <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br> </p> <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">best wishes</p> <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br> </p> <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Robert </p> <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br> </p> <div id=3D"Signature"> <div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"> <div class=3D"PlainText">Robert Zatorre<br> Montreal Neurological Institute<br> McGill University<br> 514-398-8903<br> fax: 514-398-1338<br> www.zlab.mcgill.ca</div> </font></div> </div> <br> <br> <div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1"> <div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st= yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> AUDITORY - Research i= n Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> on behalf of Peter P= . <peterparker@xxxxxxxx><br> <b>Sent:</b> February 21, 2019 8:32 AM<br> <b>To:</b> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<br> <b>Subject:</b> [widmann@xxxxxxxx: Re: [AUDITORY] Origin of the 'Breg= man picture'?]</font> <div> </div> </div> <div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;= "> <div class=3D"PlainText">Forgive me, but what is this picture about? I am c= urious but don't have<br> Goldstein's book at hand.<br> <br> Thanks!<br> Peter<br> <br> ----- Forwarded message from Andreas Widmann <widmann@xxxxxxxx>= -----<br> <br> From: Andreas Widmann <widmann@xxxxxxxx><br> Reply-To: Andreas Widmann <widmann@xxxxxxxx><br> To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<br> Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Origin of the 'Bregman picture'?<br> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:57:25 +0100<br> Sender: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx= L.CA><br> <br> > was also pointed to Goldstein=92s =91Sensation and perception=92= where I couldn't find it neither.<br> It appears in the German version of Goldstein, 4th edition, 1997, Spektrum.= Page 352, Figure 9.1. There are no image credits for the figure.<br> <br> Best,<br> Andreas<br> <br> > Am 19.02.2019 um 12:35 schrieb Brinkmann, Fabian <fabian.brinkmann@xxxxxxxx= TU-BERLIN.DE>:<br> > <br> > Dear List,<br> > <br> > does anyone know the origin of the attached picture? It is usually ref= erenced to Albert Bregman=92s work on auditory scene analysis, however, I f= ail to find it in his book. I was also pointed to Goldstein=92s =91Sensatio= n and perception=92 where I couldn't find it neither.<br> > <br> > Best<br> > Fabian<br> > <br> > <Bregman_ASA.jpg><br> <br> ----- End forwarded message -----<br> </div> </span></font></div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_YQXPR0101MB1352850D0293E9F04304D5F581780YQXPR0101MB1352_--