Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Registered reports From: Bastiaan van der Weij <bjvanderweij@xxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 11:56:10 +0200 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--00000000000011e5a3056e6ee27e Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000011e5a0056e6ee27d" --00000000000011e5a0056e6ee27d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, My experience with conducting experimental research is very limited, but with this hedge in place, maybe the following perspective on some of the points raised in this interesting thread is of some use. > I think that if the scientific question is well formed and well motivated > AND the methods sound and appropriate for addressing the question, then > whatever the result may be, this seems like a good experiment and one tha= t > should be published. > Isn't this precisely what registered reports aim to achieve? The underlying assumption is that in the current system, whether the results of a study are significant affects the likelihood that the study will be published. I think this discussion is not so much about the integrity of individual researchers and reviewers as it is about the incentives inherent in publishing and academia in general. In theory, the rate of Type I errors should be smaller or equal to the used significance level, but among published findings it isn't. This is arguably problematic, although perhaps not for well-educated readers who have been taught never to believe a single study (on the other hand, not all journalists have been taught the same lesson). There may be many reasons for an elevated Type I error rate, including the points raised by Roger. Whether you believe it's likely registered reports alleviate the problem (if you accept there is a problem) depends on the causes you attribute to the problem. It seems plausible that some of these causes are so-called "p-hacking" practices and a bias towards significant results in publishing = (if out of a set of equally well-designed studies, the ones with significant results are more likely to be published, the Type I error rate among the published studies will be elevated), both of which may result from perfectly honest research and reviewing combined with the wrong incentives. Registered reports cannot address all ways of gaming the system, but will likely reduce the incentive for p-hacking and eliminate the bias towards significant results among published (pre-registered) findings. As has already been stressed, this is not to say that all studies should be pre-registered or that only pre-registered studies should be taken seriously, but seeing that a study has been pre-registered, even if pre-registering a study is voluntary and rare, helps the reader assess its results. That is in addition to the potential benefits Julia pointed out of receiving peer-review feedback on your methods alone in addition to peer-review feedback on your results and interpretation of the results later. On the other hand, those who do have the kind of getting-your-hands-dirty experience with empirical research and statistics in the wild that I lack might agree with Les that, in practice, only very few or very uninteresting studies would qualify to benefit from being pre-registered. Then again, maybe that is how it should be: findings that we can be truly confident about are few and boring. Best wishes, Bastiaan On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 4:55 PM, Les Bernstein <lbernstein@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > I agree with Ken and Roger. It's neither clear that the current system > falls short nor that RRs would, effectively, solve any such problem. To > the degree there is a problem, I fail to see how making RRs VOLUNTARY wou= ld > serve as an effective remedy or, voluntary or not, serve to increase > "standards of publication." If people wish to have the option, that soun= ds > benign enough, save for the extra work required of reviewers. > > As suggested by Matt, I tried to think of the "wasted hours spent by > investigators who repeat the failed methods of their peers and > predecessors, only because the outcomes of failed experiments were never > published." Across the span of my career, for me and for those with whom > I've worked, I can't identify that such wasted hours have been spent. As > Ken notes, well-formed, well-motivated experiments employing sound method= s > should be (and are) published. > > Likewise, re Matt's comments, I cannot recall substantial instances of > scientists "who cling to theories based on initial publications of work > that later fails replication, but where those failed replications never g= et > published." Au contraire. I can think of a quite a few cases in which > essential replication failed, those findings were published, and the fiel= d > was advanced. I don't believe that it is the case that many of us are > clinging to theories that are invalid but for the publication of failed > replications. Theories gain status via converging evidence. > > It seems to me that for what some are arguing would, essentially, be an > auditory version of The Journal of Negative Results ( > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Negative_Results_in_Biomedicine)= . > > Still, if some investigators wish to have the RR option and journals are > willing to offer it, then, by all means, have at it. The proof of the > pudding will be in the tasting. > > Les > > > On 6/9/2018 5:13 AM, Roger Watt wrote: > > 3 points: > > > > 1. The issue of RR is tied up with the logic of null hypothesis testing. > There are only two outcomes for null hypothesis testing: (i) a tentative > conclusion that the null hypothesis should be regarded as inconsistent wi= th > the data and (ii) no conclusion about the null hypothesis can be reached > from the data. Neither outcome refers to the alternative hypothesis, whic= h > is never tested. A nice idea in the literature is the counter-null. If I > have a sample of 42 and an effect size of 0.2 (r-family), then my result = is > not significant: it is not inconsistent with a population effect size of = 0. > It is equally not inconsistent with the counter-null, a population effect > size of ~0.4. It is less inconsistent with all population effect sizes in > between the null and the counter-null. (NHST forces all these double > negatives). > > > > 2. The current system of publish when p<0.05 is easy to game, hence all > the so-called questionable practices. Any new system, like RR, will in du= e > course become easy to game. By a long shot, the easiest (invalid) way to > get an inflated effect size and an inappropriately small p is to test mor= e > participants than needed and keep only the =E2=80=9Cbest=E2=80=9D ones. R= R will not prevent > that. > > > > 3. NHST assumes random sampling, which no-one achieves. The forms of > sampling we use in reality are all possibly subject to issues of > non-independence of participants which leads to Type I error rates (false > positives) that are well above 5%. > > > > None of this is to argue against RR, just to observe that it doesn=E2=80= =99t > resolve many of the current problems. Any claim that it does, is in itsel= f > a kind of Type I error and Type I errors are very difficult to eradicate > once accepted. > > > > Roger Watt > > Professor of Psychology > > University of Stirling > > > > *From:* AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception [ > mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of > *Ken Grant > *Sent:* 09 June 2018 06:19 > *To:* AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx > *Subject:* Re: Registered reports > > > > Why aren=E2=80=99t these =E2=80=9Cfailed=E2=80=9D experiments published? = What=E2=80=99s the definition of > a failed experiment anyway. > > > > I think that if the scientific question is well formed and well motivated > AND the methods sound and appropriate for addressing the question, then > whatever the result may be, this seems like a good experiment and one tha= t > should be published. > > Sent from my iPhone > > Ken W. Grant, PhD > > Chief, Scientific and Clinical Studies > > National Military Audiology and Speech-Pathology Center (NMASC) > > Walter Reed National Military Medical Center > > Bethesda, MD 20889 > > kenneth.w.grant.civ@xxxxxxxx > > ken.w.grant@xxxxxxxx > > Office: 301-319-7043 > > Cell: 301-919-2957 > > > > > > > > > On Jun 9, 2018, at 12:48 AM, Matthew Winn <mwinn2@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > The view that RRs will stifle progress is both true and false. While the > increased load of advanced registration and rigidity in methods would, as > Les points out, become burdensome for most of our basic work, there is > another side to this. This is not a matter of morals (hiding a bad result= , > or fabricating a good result) or how to do our experiments. It=E2=80=99s = a matter > of the standards of *publication*, which you will notice was the scope of > Tim=E2=80=99s original call to action. In general, we only ever read abou= t > experiments that came out well (and not the ones that didn=E2=80=99t). If= there is > a solution to that problem, then we should consider it, or at least > acknowledge that some solution might be needed. This is partly the cultur= e > of scientific journals, and partly the culture of the institutions that > employ us. There's no need to question anybody's integrity in order to > appreciate some benefit of RRs. > > Think for a moment about the amount of wasted hours spent by investigator= s > who repeat the failed methods of their peers and predecessors, only becau= se > the outcomes of failed experiments were never published. Or those of us w= ho > cling to theories based on initial publications of work that later fails > replication, but where those failed replications never get published. THI= S > stifles progress as well. If results were to be reported whether or not > they come out as planned, we=E2=80=99d have a much more complete picture = of the > evidence for and against the ideas. Julia's story also resonates with me; > we've all reviewed papers where we've thought "if only the authors had > sought input before running this labor-intensive study, the data would be > so much more valuable." > > The arguments against RRs in this thread appear in my mind to be argument= s > against *compulsory* RRs for *all* papers in *all* journals, which takes > the discussion off course. I have not heard such radical calls. If you > don=E2=80=99t want to do a RR, then don=E2=80=99t do it. But perhaps we c= an appreciate the > goals of RR and see how those goals might be realized with practices that > suit our own fields of work. > > Matt > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > Matthew Winn, Au.D., Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Dept. of Speech & Hearing Sciences > University of Washington > > > > ------------------------------ > The University achieved an overall 5 stars in the QS World University > Rankings 2018 > The University of Stirling is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC > 011159. > > > > -- > *Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. **| *Professor > Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology)| UConn School of > Medicine > 263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401 > Office > <https://maps.google.com/?q=3D263+Farmington+Avenue,+Farmington,+CT%0D%0A= ++++++++06030-3401+%0D%0A+++++++Office&entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>: > 860.679.4622 | Fax: 860.679.2495 > > > --00000000000011e5a0056e6ee27d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoratio= n-color:initial;font-size:small">Dear all,</div><div style=3D"text-decorati= on-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:small"><br></div><= div style=3D"text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;fo= nt-size:small">My experience with conducting experimental research is very = limited, but with this hedge in place, maybe the following perspective on s= ome of the points raised in this interesting thread is of some use.</div><d= iv style=3D"text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;fon= t-size:small">=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"text-d= ecoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:small;margi= n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex= "><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-de= coration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inl= ine">I think that if the scientific question is well formed and well motiva= ted AND the methods sound and appropriate for addressing the question, then= whatever the result may be, this seems like a good experiment and one that= should be published.=C2=A0</span><br></blockquote><div style=3D"text-decor= ation-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:small"><br></di= v><div style=3D"text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial= ;font-size:small">Isn't this precisely what registered reports aim to a= chieve? The underlying assumption is that in the current system, whether th= e results of a study are significant affects the likelihood that the study = will be published. I think this discussion is not so much about the integri= ty of individual researchers and reviewers as it is about the incentives in= herent in publishing and academia in general.</div><div style=3D"text-decor= ation-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:small">=C2=A0</= div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:12.8px;text-decora= tion-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">In theory, the rate of Ty= pe I errors should be smaller or equal to the used significance level, but = among published findings it isn't. This is arguably problematic, althou= gh perhaps not for well-educated readers who have been taught never to beli= eve a single study (on the other hand, not all journalists have been taught= the same lesson).=C2=A0<span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);te= xt-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;displa= y:inline">There may be many reasons for an elevated Type I error rate, incl= uding the points raised by Roger.<span>=C2=A0</span></span><span style=3D"b= ackground-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decorat= ion-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Whether you believe it's l= ikely registered reports alleviate the problem (if you accept there is a pr= oblem) depends on the causes you attribute to the problem.<span>=C2=A0</spa= n></span>It seems plausible that some of these causes are so-called "p= -hacking" practices and=C2=A0a bias towards significant results=C2=A0<= span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initi= al;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">in publishing<s= pan>=C2=A0</span></span><span>=C2=A0</span>(if out of a set of equally well= -designed studies, the ones with significant results are more likely to be = published, the Type I error rate among the published studies will be elevat= ed), both of which may result from perfectly honest research and reviewing = combined with the wrong incentives. Registered reports cannot address all w= ays of gaming the system, but will likely reduce the incentive for p-hackin= g and eliminate the bias towards significant results among published (pre-r= egistered) findings.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0px;font-siz= e:12.8px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br><= /p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:12.8px;text-decorat= ion-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">As has already been stress= ed, this is not to say that all studies should be pre-registered or that on= ly pre-registered studies should be taken seriously, but seeing that a stud= y has been pre-registered, even if pre-registering a study is voluntary and= rare, helps the reader assess its results. That is in addition to the pote= ntial benefits Julia pointed out of receiving peer-review feedback on your = methods alone in addition to peer-review feedback on your results and inter= pretation of the results later.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0= px;font-size:12.8px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:ini= tial"><br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:12.8px;t= ext-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">On the other ha= nd, those who do have the kind of<span>=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-siz= e:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;tex= t-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">getting-your-hands-di= rty</span><span>=C2=A0</span>ex<wbr>perience with empirical research and st= atistics in the wild that I lack might agree with Les that, in practice, on= ly very few or very uninteresting studies would qualify to benefit from bei= ng pre-registered. Then again, maybe that is how it should be: findings tha= t we can be truly confident about are few and boring.</p><p class=3D"MsoNor= mal" style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:12.8px;text-decoration-style:initial;tex= t-decoration-color:initial"><br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:= 0px;font-size:12.8px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:in= itial">Best wishes,</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0px;font-size= :12.8px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Bastia= an</p><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon,= Jun 11, 2018 at 4:55 PM, Les Bernstein <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"ma= ilto:lbernstein@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">lbernstein@xxxxxxxx</a>></sp= an> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;= border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> =20 =20 =20 <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> <font size=3D"-1"><font face=3D"Verdana">I agree with Ken and Roger.=C2= =A0 It's neither clear that the current system falls short nor that RRs would, effectively, solve any such problem.=C2=A0 To the degree there is a problem, I fail to see how making RRs VOLUNTARY would serve as an effective remedy or, voluntary or not, serve to increase "standards of publication."=C2=A0 If people wish= to have the option, that sounds benign enough, save for the extra work required of reviewers.<br> <br> As suggested by Matt, I tried to think of the "wasted hours spent by investigators who repeat the failed methods of their peers and predecessors, only because the outcomes of failed experiments were never published."=C2=A0 Across the span of my career, for me and for those with whom I've worked, I can't identify that such wasted hours have been spent. As Ken notes, well-formed, well-motivated experiments employing sound methods should be (and are) published.<br> <br> Likewise, re Matt's comments, I cannot recall substantial instances of scientists "who cling to theories based on initia= l publications of work that later fails replication, but where those failed replications never get published."=C2=A0 Au contr= aire.=C2=A0 I can think of a quite a few cases in which essential replication failed, those findings were published, and the field was advanced.=C2=A0 I don't believe that it is the case that ma= ny of us are clinging to theories that are invalid but for the publication of failed replications.=C2=A0 Theories gain status via converging evidence.<br> <br> It seems to me that for what some are arguing would, essentially, be an auditory version of The Journal of Negative Results (<a class=3D"m_1003477720667729248m_-6073417193203004144moz-txt-lin= k-freetext" href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Negative_Resul= ts_in_Biomedicine" target=3D"_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki<wbr>/Jou= rnal_of_Negative_Results_<wbr>in_Biomedicine</a>).<br> <br> Still, if some investigators wish to have the RR option and journals are willing to offer it, then, by all means, have at it.=C2=A0 The proof of the pudding will be in the tasting.<span cla= ss=3D"m_1003477720667729248HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br> <br> Les<br> </font></span></font></font><div><div class=3D"m_1003477720667729248h= 5"><br> <br> <div class=3D"m_1003477720667729248m_-6073417193203004144moz-cite-prefi= x">On 6/9/2018 5:13 AM, Roger Watt wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> =20 =20 =20 <div class=3D"m_1003477720667729248m_-6073417193203004144WordSection1= "> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>3 points:<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>1. The issue of RR is tied up with the logic of null hypothesis testing. There are only two outcomes for null hypothesis testing: (i) a tentative conclusion that the null hypothesis should be regarded as inconsistent with the data and (ii) no conclusion about the null hypothesis can be reached from the data. Neither outcome refers to the alternative hypothesis, which is never tested. A nice idea in the literature is the counter-null. If I have a sample of 42 and an effect size of 0.2 (r-family), then my result is not significant: it is not inconsistent with a population effect size of 0. It is equally not inconsistent with the counter-null, a population effect size of ~0.4. It is less inconsistent with all population effect sizes in between the null and the counter-null. (NHST forces all these double negatives).<u></u><= u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>2. The current system of publish when p<0.05 is easy to game, hence all the so-called questionable practices. Any new system, like RR, will in due course become easy to game. By a long shot, the easiest (invalid) way to get an inflated effect size and an inappropriately small p is to test more participants than needed and keep only the =E2=80=9Cbest=E2=80= =9D ones. RR will not prevent that.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>3. NHST assumes random sampling, which no-one achieves. The forms of sampling we use in reality are all possibly subject to issues of non-independence of participants which leads to Type I error rates (false positives) that are well above 5%. <u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>None of this is to argue against RR, just to observe that it doesn=E2=80=99t resolve many of the current problems. Any claim= that it does, is in itself a kind of Type I error and Type I errors are very difficult to eradicate once accepted.<u></u><u>= </u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Roger Watt<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Professor of Psychology<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>University of Stirling<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"m_1003477720667729248_m_-60734171= 93203004144__MailEndCompose"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></a></p> <span></span> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:= 3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b>= <span lang=3D"EN-US"> AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception [<a class=3D"m_1003477720667729248m_-6073417193203004144moz= -txt-link-freetext" href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_bla= nk">mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<wbr>CA</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ken Grant<br> <b>Sent:</b> 09 June 2018 06:19<br> <b>To:</b> <a class=3D"m_1003477720667729248m_-607341719320= 3004144moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" t= arget=3D"_blank">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: Registered reports<u></u><u></u></span>= </p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Why aren=E2=80=99t these =E2=80=9Cfailed=E2= =80=9D experiments published? What=E2=80=99s the definition of a failed experiment anyway.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">I think tha= t if the scientific question is well formed and well motivated AND the methods sound and appropriate for addressing the question, then whatever the result may be, this seems like a good experiment and one that should be published.=C2=A0<u></u><= u></u></p> <div id=3D"m_1003477720667729248m_-6073417193203004144AppleMailSi= gnature"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<u></u><u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.0pt">Ken W= . Grant, PhD</span><u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.0pt">Chief= , Scientific and Clinical Studies</span><u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.0pt">Natio= nal Military Audiology and Speech-Pathology Center (NMASC)</s= pan><u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.0pt">Walte= r Reed National Military Medical Center</span><u></u><u></u= ></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.0pt">Bet= hesda, MD 20889</span><u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"mailto:kenneth.w.grant.ci= v@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">kenneth.w.grant.civ@xxxxxxxx</a><u></u><u></u= ></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"mailto:ken.w.grant@xxxxxxxx= com" target=3D"_blank">ken.w.grant@xxxxxxxx</a><u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.0pt">Off= ice: =C2=A0301-319-7043</span><u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.0pt">Cel= l: =C2=A0301-919-2957</span><u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br> On Jun 9, 2018, at 12:48 AM, Matthew Winn <<a href=3D"mail= to:mwinn2@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">mwinn2@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">The view that RRs will stifle progress is both true and false. While the increased load of advanced registration and rigidity in methods would, as Les points out, become burdensome for most of our basic work, there is another side to this. This is not a matter of morals (hiding a bad result, or fabricating a good result) or how to do our experiments. It=E2=80=99s= a matter of the standards of *publication*, which you will notice was the scope of Tim=E2=80=99s original call = to action. In general, we only ever read about experiments that came out well (and not the ones that didn=E2=80=99t). If there is a solution to that problem, = then we should consider it, or at least acknowledge that some solution might be needed. This is partly the culture of scientific journals, and partly the culture of the institutions that employ us. There's no need t= o question anybody's integrity in order to appreciate some benefit of RRs. <br> <br> Think for a moment about the amount of wasted hours spent by investigators who repeat the failed methods of their peers and predecessors, only because the outcomes of failed experiments were never published. Or those of us who cling to theories based on initial publications of work that later fails replication, but where those failed replications never get published. THIS stifles progress as well. If results were to be reported whether or not they come out as planned, we=E2= =80=99d have a much more complete picture of the evidence for and against the ideas. Julia's story also resonates with me; we've all reviewed papers where we've th= ought "if only the authors had sought input before running this labor-intensive study, the data would be so much more valuable."<br> <br> The arguments against RRs in this thread appear in my mind to be arguments against *compulsory* RRs for *all* papers in *all* journals, which takes the discussion off course. I have not heard such radical calls. If you don=E2=80=99t want to do a RR, then don=E2= =80=99t do it. But perhaps we can appreciate the goals of RR and see how those goals might be realized with practices that suit our own fields of work.<br> <br> Matt <u></u><u></u></p> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">------------------------= ------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>--<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Matthew Winn, Au.D., Ph.D.<br> Assistant Professor<br> Dept. of Speech & Hearing Sciences<br> University of Washington<u></u><u></u></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> <div align=3D"left"> <hr> <div align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">The University achieved an overall 5 stars in the QS World University Rankings 2018</font></div> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"gray">The University of Stirling is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC 011159.<br> </font> </div> </blockquote> <br> <br> </div></div><span><div class=3D"m_1003477720667729248m_-607341719320300= 4144moz-signature">-- <br> =20 =20 <b><span>Leslie R. Bernstein, Ph.D. </span></b><b><span>| </span></b>= <span>Professor</span><span><u></u><u></u></span><span><br> Depts. of Neuroscience and Surgery (Otolaryngology)| UConn School of Medicine </span><br> <span></span><span>263 Farmington Avenue, Farmington, CT 06030-3401</span><br> <span></span><span><a href=3D"https://maps.google.com/?q=3D263+Farmin= gton+Avenue,+Farmington,+CT%0D%0A++++++++06030-3401+%0D%0A+++++++Office&= ;entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Office</a>: 860.679.4622 |= Fax: 860.679.2495<br> <br> <img alt=3D"" src=3D"cid:part6.4DF1ADC2.B162E604@xxxxxxxx" height= =3D"48" width=3D"125"><br> </span> </div> </span></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></div> --00000000000011e5a0056e6ee27d-- --00000000000011e5a3056e6ee27e Content-Type: image/png; name="uconnhealth_stacked_blue_email.png" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="uconnhealth_stacked_blue_email.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <part6.4DF1ADC2.B162E604@xxxxxxxx> X-Attachment-Id: e03b9798cf55b655_0.1 iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAH0AAAAwCAMAAAALmIWlAAAAGXRFWHRTb2Z0d2FyZQBBZG9iZSBJ bWFnZVJlYWR5ccllPAAAADNQTFRFKzVYHCZM4eLn8PHzpKi30dTbaG+IlZqrs7fDWWB8O0Nkd32U wsXPSlJwhoufDRhA////A68jmAAAABF0Uk5T/////////////////////wAlrZliAAACYklEQVR4 2uzY22KDIAwAUC7e6gjw/187gUC4OetaupflaTXKWSuBKNMuJptC+QMCP20auPHBQCubBWU46K24 uB7NfZ58ZqaMP8D8AEBHtT/goXnB8WPwBf8r1WYUXWxUOZobHcJXIMcfONclmE4s0lrRzYBIOjvT jX5WV6YbP2ZQJ6TWjfiAbuYzHW7p+xpuolQrP83sjQ5nupnu6LqaJ92MbnSznulcfkBHpNXNY6y+ c0JKnWX1eFeflQt5qcNESKnrQMrf6LSAXeiWkEoXdOU4nZBKxzPnoTohtW5ZZyK8W09Io6tYjyP1 iDS6XbAeh815S0irS6zHUfXuB0Ok1S3W41AdEWh1/Nb7UD1bWytd0LY4ThdnerYbBJ1taT5XBmy4 J8mNnWagp5fbba6HeiTdneK6vNgoFj0EhyO4eSZT6AlpdNXoNzqYi94GbIU0eqhHp3d5drRf4heZ Uo9Iq8vYptup6VB37H6m/W6m0hFpdaxH3/yK9cHpVq5Zy59n2GMV/QxPGdV9NElPE9njyOozsfWW Kq6j7bLuw97KPBnM/mX86//6n+tH/yLKP7AUXcyd80Lx53WnspB47ty5qKND1gLockfIFzHR7srp Q7X0+6GgHPNFXedPyaN1CPFli71z+ZBeTxbcI2RXxwOQj/lW/Ui610Z6gA4a32WRrssXYbO76V/Z y6FLnZVj/qCnqGcdZE1DeFKcntWrMV/RZXCh7B/fpF/+8tQQx6J74y9/Oeuyrm75+Jyf8oKWH9CL 1SYNJtJ91HTOAD2fdjPN9UcsumwmDNYXqvPtOLa9pH8LMACnoV0siZAyOAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== --00000000000011e5a3056e6ee27e--