Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Shortest duration to perceive timbre or tonal quality? Suggest reference From: "Roy D. Patterson" <rdp1@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 10:19:27 +0000 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--=_32bc27ff975b5fba97c8caa5bc01ef5d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Dear Jiajun Yang, Ken Robinson and I did a pair of studies in the mid-1990s that attempted to address the question of the duration required to form a timbre image, one with musical tones and one with vowels. Robinson, K.L. and Patterson, R.D. (1995a) "The duration required to identify the instrument, the octave, or the pitch-chroma of a musical note," Music Perception 13, 1-15. Robinson, K.L. and Patterson, R.D. (1995b) "The stimulus duration required to identify vowels, their octave, and their pitch-chroma," J. Acoust. Soc. Am. 98, 1858-1865. The durations required for timbre identification are so short that you need to be very careful with the experimental design. In these studies we compared the duration for timbre identification with that required for pitch and chroma identification. The paradigm will give you some idea of how you have to control the experiment when asking questions about short duration sounds. The problem is that you can store short sounds in echoic memory and do a lot of post processing on them that has nothing to do with their duration. These papers also have references to earlier timbre studies you might like to look at. I can provide pdf's of these papers if you want them. We also did a more complicated segregation experiment on concurrant vowels that is probably also relevant to your question. McKeown, D. and Patterson, R.D. (1995). "The time course of auditory segregation: concurrant vowels that vary in duration," J. Acoust. Soc. Am. 98, 1866-1877. Best regards, Roy P ------- Roy D. Patterson, PhD Department of Physiology, Development and Neuroscience University of Cambridge, Downing Street, Cambridge, CB2 3EG email: rdp1@xxxxxxxx phone +44 (1223) 333819 http://www.pdn.cam.ac.uk/directory/roy-patterson http://www.pdn.cam.ac.uk/groups/cnbh/ http://www.AcousticScale.org On 16.03.2018 10:24, Jiajun Yang wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I am hoping if you can point us to some studies on whether there is a minimum duration of sound for its timbre or tonal quality to be clearly perceived. > > I found this quote from http://www.indiana.edu/~emusic/etext/acoustics/chapter1_timbre.shtml [1] that "Some studies have indicated it takes at least 60ms to recognise the timbre of a sound" However, I am not about to locate the exact study. > > Many thanks > > Jiajun Yang > Postdoc research, Ambient Intelligence Group, > Citec, Bielefeld University, Germany Links: ------ [1] http://www.indiana.edu/~emusic/etext/acoustics/chapter1_timbre.shtml --=_32bc27ff975b5fba97c8caa5bc01ef5d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"> <html><body style=3D'font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",Times,= serif'> <p>Dear Jiajun Yang,</p> <p>Ken Robinson and I did a pair of studies in the mid-1990s that attempted= to address the question of the duration required to form a timbre image, o= ne with musical tones and one with vowels. </p> <p>Robinson, K.L. and Patterson, R.D. (1995a) "The duration required to ide= ntify the instrument, the octave, or the pitch-chroma of a musical note," M= usic Perception 13, 1-15.</p> <p>Robinson, K.L. and Patterson, R.D. (1995b) "The stimulus duration requir= ed to identify vowels, their octave, and their pitch-chroma," J. Acoust. So= c. Am. 98, 1858-1865.</p> <p>The durations required for timbre identification are so short that you n= eed to be very careful with the experimental design. In these studies we co= mpared the duration for timbre identification with that required for pitch = and chroma identification. The paradigm will give you some idea of how you = have to control the experiment when asking questions about short duration s= ounds. The problem is that you can store short sounds in echoic memory and = do a lot of post processing on them that has nothing to do with their durat= ion.</p> <p>These papers also have references to earlier timbre studies you might li= ke to look at.</p> <p>I can provide pdf's of these papers if you want them.</p> <p>We also did a more complicated segregation experiment on concurrant vowe= ls that is probably also relevant to your question.</p> <p>McKeown, D. and Patterson, R.D. (1995). "The time course of auditory seg= regation: concurrant vowels that vary in duration," J. Acoust. Soc. Am. 98,= 1866-1877.</p> <p>Best regards,</p> <p>Roy P</p> <div> <pre>-------<br />Roy D. Patterson, PhD Department of Physiology, Development and Neuroscience University of Cambridge, Downing Street, Cambridge, CB2 3EG email: rdp1@xxxxxxxx phone +44 (1223) 333819 =20 http://www.pdn.cam.ac.uk/directory/roy-patterson http://www.pdn.cam.ac.uk/groups/cnbh/ http://www.AcousticScale.org </pre> </div> <p>On 16.03.2018 10:24, Jiajun Yang wrote:</p> <blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2p= x solid; margin-left:5px"><!-- html ignored --><!-- head ignored --><!-- me= ta ignored -->Dear colleagues, <div> </div> <div>I am hoping if you can point us to some studies on whether there is a = minimum duration of sound for its timbre or tonal quality to be clearly per= ceived. </div> <div> </div> <div>I found this quote from <a href=3D"http://www.indiana.edu/~emusic= /etext/acoustics/chapter1_timbre.shtml">http://www.indiana.edu/~emusic/etex= t/acoustics/chapter1_timbre.shtml</a> that "Some studies have indicate= d it takes at least 60ms to recognise the timbre of a sound" However, I am = not about to locate the exact study. </div> <div> </div> <div>Many thanks</div> <div> </div> <div>Jiajun Yang</div> <div>Postdoc research, Ambient Intelligence Group, </div> <div>Citec, Bielefeld University, Germany</div> </blockquote> </body></html> --=_32bc27ff975b5fba97c8caa5bc01ef5d--