Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Auditory Model Framework (and request for Klemm 1920 paper) From: PIerre DIVENYI <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 08:35:31 -0800 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--Apple-Mail-98121FDD-89B9-4262-95D6-8DA964D0772D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dick, I would like to see the original paper. Also, I feel compelled to note that K= lemm must have done the work toward the end of WWI, a period during which he= could not have had the opportunity to test young male subjects because they= were either fighting in the trenches or they were dead.=20 Pierre Sent from my iPad > On Dec 6, 2017, at 22:51, Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >=20 > Maybe you found out about Otto Klemm from my book, which says "Otto Klemm (= 1920) published much more detailed experimental results, also in > 1920, and found a time-difference threshold of about 20 microseconds in on= e subject, and even less than 10 microseconds in another!" >=20 > Or maybe not, since I didn't abbreviate Archiv f=C3=BCr die gesamte Psych= ologie and had the longer title: > Klemm, O. (1920). =E2=80=9CUntersuchungen =C3=BCber die Lokalisation von S= challreizen. 4. Mitteilung: =C3=9Cber den Einflu=C3=9F des binauralen Zeitun= terschiedes auf die Lokalisation,=E2=80=9D Archiv f=C3=BCr die gesamte Psych= ologie 40, 117=E2=80=93146. >=20 > In general, I can provide copies of references on request. >=20 > I have the copy that Stefan Strahl <stefan.strahl@xxxxxxxx> found= in the Innsbruck Library across the street from MED-EL and scanned for me w= hen I asked on this list in March 2011. I'll send it separately. >=20 > Note that the lowercase Greek sigma in the paper is an old abbreviation fo= r milliseconds. He says (rough translation) before table 3: "Without observ= er A, I would generally limit the sensitivity at 1/10 ms to 1/50 ms. But the= results of A force to the Indication that they show up to 1/100 ms and even= smaller values." But let me know if I've misunderstood; I don't read Germa= n very well. >=20 > I found where we discussed it at the time, in the list archives: http://w= ww.auditory.org/mhonarc/2011/msg00280.html > I'm embarrassed that I had all this in 2011 and took 6 more years to get m= y book out. >=20 > Dick >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:59 AM, Mathias Dietz <mdietz@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >> Dear List, >>=20 >> At ARO 2016 about 50 auditory model developers and model users met for a d= iscussion on how to improve applicability and comparability of auditory mode= ls. A team of 8 modelers from 7 labs moved on to develop an interface connec= ting models with experiments and a software frameworks for this purpose =E2=80= =93 in Matlab/Octave and in Python. In brief it operates through a file I/O.= Experiment sends *.wav file to model and the model sends a response file to= the experiment which has the same format as you would obtain from a real ex= periment (e.g. a spike train or the selection of a target interval). The fra= mework is compatible with existing toolboxes such as AFC or the Auditory Mod= el Toolbox. >>=20 >> Throughout the process we had a certain focus on binaural hearing but the= final product should be equally useful for other models and experiments. >>=20 >> We now have a first version online and hope someone finds it useful: >>=20 >> https://github.com/model-initiative >>=20 >> It is ideal if you want to compare several models on the same experiment o= r if you have models and experiments in different programming languages. Its= particularly useful for modeling AFC type experiments. >>=20 >> More information can be found in the readme.pdf on github and in the Hear= ing Research paper we just published on the subject. Again there is a binaur= al focus especially Sec. 2 (review on binaural models) but the framework des= cribed in Sec. 6 is fairly universal: >>=20 >> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378595517302605 >>=20 >> if you do not have access, you find a pre-print here: >>=20 >> http://neural-reckoning.org/pub_framework_comparing_binaural_models.html >>=20 >> If you want to give the framework a try I recommend the quick_example.txt= instruction. >>=20 >> We welcome feedback, beta testers, and anyone who wants to use or improve= the framework. >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> On a different topic I am looking for a historic paper: >>=20 >> Klemm, O. (1920). =C3=9Cber den Einfluss des binauralen Zeitunterschiedes= auf die Lokalisation. Arch. ges. Psychol., 1920, 40, 117-146 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> Best, >>=20 >> Mathias >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> ************************************************ >>=20 >> Mathias Dietz >>=20 >> Canada Research Chair in Binaural Hearing >>=20 >> Associate Professor >>=20 >> National Centre for Audiology >>=20 >> School of Communication Sciences & Disorders >>=20 >> Faculty of Health Sciences >>=20 >> 1201 Western Road, Elborn College Room 2262F >> Western University >> London, Ontario CANADA N6G 1H1 >> T 519-661-2111 Ext 88258 >> e-mail mdietz@xxxxxxxx=20 >> http://www.uwo.ca/fhs/csd/people/faculty/dietz_m.html >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-98121FDD-89B9-4262-95D6-8DA964D0772D Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D= utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Dick,<div>I would like to see the original p= aper. Also, I feel compelled to note that Klemm must have done the work towa= rd the end of WWI, a period during which he could not have had the opportuni= ty to test young male subjects because they were either fighting in the tren= ches or they were dead. </div><div>Pierre<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSi= gnature">Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Dec 6, 2017, at 22:51, Richard F.= Lyon <<a href=3D"mailto:dicklyon@xxxxxxxx">dicklyon@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote= :<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><di= v>Maybe you found out about Otto Klemm from my book, which says "Otto Klemm (= 1920) published much more detailed experimental results, also in<br>1920, an= d found a time-difference threshold of about 20 microseconds in one subject,= and even less than 10 microseconds in another!"</div><div><br></div><div>Or= maybe not, since I didn't abbreviate Archiv f=C3=BCr die gesamte Psyc= hologie and had the longer title:</div><div>Klemm, O. (1920). =E2=80=9CUnter= suchungen =C3=BCber die Lokalisation von Schallreizen. 4. Mitteilung: =C3=9C= ber den Einflu=C3=9F des binauralen Zeitunterschiedes auf die Lokalisation,=E2= =80=9D Archiv f=C3=BCr die gesamte Psychologie 40, 117=E2=80=93146.<br></div= ><div><br></div>In general, I can provide copies of references on request.<b= r><br></div>I have the copy that Stefan Strahl <<a href=3D"mailto:stefan.= strahl@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">stefan.strahl@xxxxxxxx<wbr>= de</a>> found in the Innsbruck Library across the street from MED-E= L and scanned for me when I asked on this list in March 2011. I'll sen= d it separately.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Note that the lowercase Greek s= igma in the paper is an old abbreviation for milliseconds. He says (ro= ugh translation) before table 3: "Without observer A, I would generally limi= t the sensitivity at 1/10 ms to 1/50 ms. But the results of A force to the I= ndication that they show up to 1/100 ms and even smaller values." But l= et me know if I've misunderstood; I don't read German very well.</div><div><= br></div><div>I found where we discussed it at the time, in the list archive= s: <a href=3D"http://www.auditory.org/mhonarc/2011/msg00280.html">http= ://www.auditory.org/mhonarc/2011/msg00280.html</a></div><div>I'm embarrassed= that I had all this in 2011 and took 6 more years to get my book out.<br></= div><div><br></div>Dick<br><br><div><div><br><br></div></div></div><div clas= s=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:59= AM, Mathias Dietz <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:mdietz@xxxxxxxx" ta= rget=3D"_blank">mdietz@xxxxxxxx</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"= gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l= eft:1ex"> <div link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" lang=3D"EN-US"> <div class=3D"m_-3064341464489649786WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear List,<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">At ARO 2016 about 50 auditory model developers and mo= del users met for a discussion on how to improve applicability and comparabi= lity of auditory models. A team of 8 modelers from 7 labs moved on to develo= p an interface connecting models with experiments and a software frameworks for this purpose =E2=80=93 in Ma= tlab/Octave and in Python. In brief it operates through a file I/O. Experime= nt sends *.wav file to model and the model sends a response file to the expe= riment which has the same format as you would obtain from a real experiment (e.g. a spike train or the selection of= a target interval). The framework is compatible with existing toolboxes suc= h as AFC or the Auditory Model Toolbox.<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Throughout the process we had a certain focus on bina= ural hearing but the final product should be equally useful for other models= and experiments.<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">We now have a first version online and hope someone f= inds it useful:<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://github.com/model-initiative" targe= t=3D"_blank">https://github.com/model-<wbr>initiative</a><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">It is ideal if you want to compare several models on t= he same experiment or if you have models and experiments in different progra= mming languages. Its particularly useful for modeling AFC type experiments.<= u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">More information can be found in the readme.pdf on gi= thub and in the Hearing Research paper we just published on the subject. Aga= in there is a binaural focus especially Sec. 2 (review on binaural models) b= ut the framework described in Sec. 6 is fairly universal:<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/artic= le/pii/S0378595517302605" target=3D"_blank">http://www.sciencedirect.com/<wb= r>science/article/pii/<wbr>S0378595517302605</a><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">if you do not have access, you find a pre-print here:= <u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://neural-reckoning.org/pub_framework_= comparing_binaural_models.html" target=3D"_blank">http://neural-reckoning.or= g/<wbr>pub_framework_comparing_<wbr>binaural_models.html</a><u></u><u></u></= p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">If you want to give the framework a try I recommend t= he quick_example.txt instruction. <u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">We welcome feedback, beta testers, and anyone who wan= ts to use or improve the framework.<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On a different topic I am looking for a historic pape= r:<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE">Klemm, O. (1920). =C3=9Cber den Ein= fluss des binauralen Zeitunterschiedes auf die Lokalisation. </span>Arch. ges. Psychol., 1920, 40, 117-146<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best,<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mathias<u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family= :"Arial",sans-serif">******************************<wbr>**********= ********</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family= :"Arial",sans-serif">Mathias Dietz</span><span style=3D"font-size:= 12.0pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family= :"Arial",sans-serif">Canada Research Chair in Binaural Hearing</sp= an><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family= :"Arial",sans-serif">Associate Professor</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family= :"Arial",sans-serif">National Centre for Audiology</span><u></u><u= ></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family= :"Arial",sans-serif">School of Communication Sciences & Disord= ers</span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family= :"Arial",sans-serif">Faculty of Health Sciences</span><u></u><u></= u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family= :"Arial",sans-serif"><a href=3D"https://maps.google.com/?q=3D1201+= Western+Road&entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg">1201 Western Road</a>, Elborn= College Room 2262F<br> Western University<br> London, Ontario CANADA N6G 1H1<br> T <a href=3D"tel:(519)%20661-2111" value=3D"+15196612111" target=3D"_blank">= 519-661-2111 Ext 88258</a><br> e-mail <a href=3D"mailto:mdietz@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">mdietz@xxxxxxxx= </a> <br> <u><span style=3D"color:#0000ee"><a href=3D"http://www.uwo.ca/fhs/csd/people= /faculty/dietz_m.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.uwo.ca/fhs/csd/<wbr>peop= le/faculty/dietz_m.html</a></span></u></span><u></u><u></u></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p> </div> </div> </blockquote></div><br></div> </div></blockquote></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-98121FDD-89B9-4262-95D6-8DA964D0772D--