Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Maximum temporal window for pattern recognition and the perception of redundancy From: Dario Sanfilippo <sanfilippo.dario@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 11:43:11 +0000 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--f403045f89c4bf7d3c05479ecb55 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you so much for your answer, Guy. On 2 February 2017 at 13:13, Guy Madison <guy.madison@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > Dear Dario, > > > > there is the old idea of a perceptual present =E2=80=93 or =E2=80=9Dspeci= ous present=E2=80=9D in > the words of William James (The principles of psychology, 1890). Slightly > more recent is the related concept =E2=80=9Cthe phonological loop=E2=80= =9D (Baddeley, 1992, > Science, 255, 556-559). It remains unclear what, exactly, such temporary > storages retain, and how they extend in time. This is clearly an > understudied phenomenon. > > > > Baddeley seemed early on to envision a veridical memory for sound, i.e. > like a tape-recorder. But it would seem inefficient to have a fixed > time-limit for such a memory, as it might =E2=80=9Cbreak off=E2=80=9D jus= t before the end > of a verbal or musical phrase, and thus miss the essential meaning. But i= f > it were flexible in duration, it could not only be a stupid tape-recorder= , > but must somehow process the information continuously to predict relevant > time periods and adjust the duration accordingly. The question is then on > what principles this fast, automatic feature-analysis operates, and how i= t > reduces information. One could, for example, conceive an > information-reducing mechanism that predicts how much information (i.e. > non-reduction) and how long chunks of information to retain and possibly > =E2=80=9Cpass on=E2=80=9D to other processing (lexical, grammatical, harm= onic, melodic, > rhythmic, etc.) > =E2=80=8BSure, that's right. This reminds me of an academic writing workshop I attended a couple of years ago: the professor emphasised a lot on how important it is to keep sentences below 50 or so words (roughly three lines), otherwise they will generally become much more difficult to understand or follow. I can't remember the reference for that information but, perhaps, there might be a more fixed window for this kind of information processing. Generally speaking, can we say that the process of music listening is based on the mechanism through which a variable buffer in the short-term memory passes somehow coherent chunks to the long-term memory to create a sequence= ? I am just speculating as a composer/listener here and I haven't checked all the documents you all provided yet, but I would think that that buffer gets larger if the incoming signal is adding complexity/information to the chunk currently being processed without altering the identity/coherence of such chunk; whereas if the incoming signal belongs to a sort of different identity the current chunk will be "archived" and a new processing task will instantiated. On the other hand, if the incoming signal is not adding significant complexity/information and is not moving towards a new identity/coherence, after a certain period (perhaps given by the shortest possible chunk) the chunk will still be archived and the redundancy/attention drop will take place. Could this make sense? Dario > > > Some useful introductory texts: > > Bregman, A. S. (1993). Auditory scene analysis: hearing in complex > environments. In S.McAdams & E. Bigand (Eds.), *Thinking in sound. The > cognitive psychology of human audition* (pp. 10-36). Oxford, UK: > Clarendon Press. > > Dunlap, K. (1911). Rhythm and the specious present. *Journal of > Philosophical, Psychological and Scientific Method, 8,* 348-354. > > Fraisse, P. (1963). *The psychology of time*. New York: Harper. > > Fraisse, P. (1978). Time and rhythm perception. In E.C.Carterette & M. P. > Friedman (Eds.), *Handbook of perception (Vol. 8).* (8 ed., pp. > 203-254). New York: Academic press. > > Fraisse, P. (1982). Rhythm and tempo. In D.Deutsch (Ed.), *The psychology > of music* (pp. 149-180). London: Academic Press. > > Fraisse, P. (1984). Perception and estimation of time. *Annual Review of > Psychology, 35,* 1-36. > > Madison, G. (2001). *Functional modelling of the human timing mechanism*. > PhD Thesis. Uppsala: Uppsala University Library. > > Michon, J. A. (1978). The making of the present. A tutorial review. In > J.E.Requin (Ed.), *Attention and performance* (pp. 89-111). Hillsdale, > NJ: Erlbaum. > > P=C3=B6ppel, E. (1978). Time Perception. In R.Held, H. W. Leibowitz, & H.= -L. > Teuber (Eds.), *Handbook of Sensory Physiology, Vol 8* (pp. 713-729). > > P=C3=B6ppel, E. (1997). A hierarchical model of temporal perception. *Tre= nds > in Cognitive Sciences, 1,* 56-61. > > Wallin, J. E. W. (1911). Experimental studies of rhythm and time. I. > Qualitative limens or grades of rhythm, and the difference limen in the > perception of time. *Psychological Review, 18,* 100-131. > > Wallin, J. E. W. (1911). Experimental studies of rhythm and time. II.The > preferred length of interval (tempo). *Psychological Review, 18,* 202-222= . > > Woodrow, H. (1951). Time perception. In S.S.Stevens (Ed.), * Handbook of > experimental psychology* (pp. 1224-1236). New York: Wiley. > > > > And here are some empirical studies. I think that repeated noise is one > very useful method to examine the nature of this =E2=80=9Cpresent=E2=80= =9D in more detail, > as explored somewhat by Warren and colleagues. > > Madison, G. & Deligni=C3=A8res, D. (2009). Auditory feedback affects the > long-range correlation of isochronous serial interval production. Support > for a closed-loop or memory model of timing. *Experimental Brain > Research, 193,* 519-527. > > Mates, J., Radil, T., M=C3=BCller, U., & P=C3=B6ppel, E. (1994). Temporal > integration in sensorimotor synchronization. *Journal of Cognitive > Neuroscience, 6,* 332-340. > > Michon, J. A. (1964). Studies on subjective duration: I. Differential > sensitivity in the perception of repeated temporal intervals. *Acta > Psychologica, 22,* 441-450. > > Brubaker, B. S. & Warren, R. M. (1987). Detection of infratonal repetitio= n > of frozen noise: Singularity recognition or pattern recognition? *Journal > of the Acoustical Society of America, 82,* S93. > > Warren, R. M., Gardner, D. A., Brubaker, B. S., & Bashford, J. A. (1991). > Melodic and nonmelodic sequences of tones: effects of duration on > perception. *Music Perception, 8,* 277-290. > > Warren, R. M. (1993). Perception of acoustic sequences: global integratio= n > versus temporal resolution. In S.McAdams & E. Bigand (Eds.), *Thinking in > sound. The cognitive psychology of human audition* (pp. 37-68). Oxford, > UK: Clarendon Press. > > /Guy > > > > *From:* AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception [mailto: > AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx *On Behalf Of *Dario Sanfilippo > *Sent:* den 1 februari 2017 15:40 > *To:* AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx > *Subject:* Maximum temporal window for pattern recognition and the > perception of redundancy > > > > Hello, dear list. > > > > I would like to ask you a couple of questions and I will be very grateful > if you could help me. It would be great to be pointed out to specific > publications, thank you so much in advance for that. > > > > The first question is on the maximum temporal window for the recognition > of patterns in long-term audio events. Generally speaking, what is the > largest (temporal) distance between audio events so that we can still > process such events as interrelated? As an example, let's assume to have = a > sequence of different pitches equally spaced in time; what is the largest > possible distance between them to still be able to perceive a melody? > > > > The second question is on the perception of redundancy in relatively > complex (i.e., dynamical equilibrium) long-term audio events. As an > example, think of the sound of the sea: its internal structure is never t= he > same although it keeps a strong identity from a global point of view. I > believe that this is highly dependent on both the cultural background of > the listener as well as the degree of complexity of the audio event itsel= f, > but is there any study which tries to relate the perception of redundancy > (i.e., the moment in which the listener's attention drops) with a specifi= c > temporal window? And is there a connection or similarity between this > window and the one described in my first question? > > > > Thank you and best wishes. > > > Dario > --f403045f89c4bf7d3c05479ecb55 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he= lvetica,sans-serif">Thank you so much for your answer, Guy.</div><div class= =3D"gmail_extra"><div><div class=3D"m_1418839850833542937m_-245641546410489= 5177m_7845692764355522227m_6963773695464083600gmail_signature" data-smartma= il=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir= =3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></= div></div> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2 February 2017 at 13:13, Guy Madison <sp= an dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:guy.madison@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">= guy.madison@xxxxxxxx</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot= e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div lang=3D"SV" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"> <div class=3D"m_1418839850833542937m_-2456415464104895177m_7845692764355522= 227m_6963773695464083600m_-4822614612727074825WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear Dario,<u></u><u></u></span= ></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">there is the old idea of a perc= eptual present =E2=80=93 or =E2=80=9Dspecious present=E2=80=9D in the words= of William James (The principles of psychology, 1890). Slightly more recen= t is the related concept =E2=80=9Cthe phonological loop=E2=80=9D (Baddeley, 1992, Science, 255, 556= -559). It remains unclear what, exactly, such temporary storages retain, an= d how they extend in time. This is clearly an understudied phenomenon.<u></= u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Baddeley seemed early on to env= ision a veridical memory for sound, i.e. like a tape-recorder. But it would= seem inefficient to have a fixed time-limit for such a memory, as it might =E2=80=9Cbreak off=E2=80=9D just before the end of a verbal or musical phr= ase, and thus miss the essential meaning. But if it were flexible in durati= on, it could not only be a stupid tape-recorder, but must somehow process t= he information continuously to predict relevant time periods and adjust the duration accordingly. The question is then on = what principles this fast, automatic feature-analysis operates, and how it = reduces information. One could, for example, conceive an information-reduci= ng mechanism that predicts how much information (i.e. non-reduction) and how long chunks of information to ret= ain and possibly =E2=80=9Cpass on=E2=80=9D to other processing (lexical, gr= ammatical, harmonic, melodic, rhythmic, etc.)</span></p></div></div></block= quote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family= :arial,helvetica,sans-serif">=E2=80=8BSure, that's right.=C2=A0</div><d= iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"= ><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetic= a,sans-serif">This reminds me of an academic writing workshop I attended a = couple of years ago: the professor emphasised a lot on how important it is = to keep sentences below 50 or so words (roughly three lines), otherwise the= y will generally become much more difficult to understand or follow. I can&= #39;t remember the reference for that information but, perhaps, there might= be a more fixed window for this kind of information processing.</div><div = class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><b= r></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s= ans-serif">Generally speaking, can we say that the process of music listeni= ng is based on the mechanism through which a variable buffer in the short-t= erm memory passes somehow coherent chunks to the long-term memory to create= a sequence?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,h= elvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f= amily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I am just speculating as a composer/liste= ner here and I haven't checked all the documents you all provided yet, = but I would think that that buffer gets larger if the incoming signal is ad= ding complexity/information to the chunk currently being processed without = altering the identity/coherence of such chunk; whereas if the incoming sign= al belongs to a sort of different identity the current chunk will be "= archived" and a new processing task will instantiated.</div><div class= =3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></d= iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s= erif">On the other hand, if the incoming signal is not adding significant c= omplexity/information and is not moving towards a new identity/coherence, a= fter a certain period (perhaps given by the shortest possible chunk) the ch= unk will still be archived and the redundancy/attention drop will take plac= e.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helve= tica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil= y:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Could this make sense?</div><div class=3D"gma= il_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div= class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">D= ario</div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl= e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div la= ng=3D"SV" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3D"m_14188398508335= 42937m_-2456415464104895177m_7845692764355522227m_6963773695464083600m_-482= 2614612727074825WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><= u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Some useful introductory texts:= <u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Bregman, A. S. (1993). Auditory scene analysis: hearin= g in complex environments. In S.McAdams & E. Bigand (Eds.), <i>Thinking in sound. The cognitive psychology of human audition</i> (pp. 1= 0-36). Oxford, UK: Clarendon Press.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Dunlap, K. (1911). Rhythm and the specious present. <i= >Journal of Philosophical, Psychological and Scientific Method, 8,</i> 348-= 354.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Fraisse, P. (1963). <i>The psychology of time</i>. New= York: Harper.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Fraisse, P. (1978). Time and rhythm perception. In E.C= .Carterette & M. P. Friedman (Eds.), <i>Handbook of perception=C2=A0 (Vol. 8).</i> (8 ed., pp. 203-254). New Yor= k: Academic press.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Fraisse, P. (1982). Rhythm and tempo. In D.Deutsch (Ed= .), <i>The psychology of music</i> (pp. 149-180). London: Academic Press.<u= ></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Fraisse, P. (1984). Perception and estimation of time.= <i>Annual Review of Psychology, 35,</i> 1-36.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Madison, G. (2001). <i>Functional modelling of the hum= an timing mechanism</i>. PhD Thesis. Uppsala: Uppsala University Library.<u= ></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Michon, J. A. (1978). The making of the present. A tut= orial review. In J.E.Requin (Ed.), <i>Attention and performance</i> (pp. 89-111). Hillsdale, NJ: Erlbaum.<u></= u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">P=C3=B6ppel, E. (1978). Time Perception. In R.Held, H.= W. Leibowitz, & H.-L. Teuber (Eds.), <i>Handbook of Sensory Physiology, Vol 8</i> (pp. 713-729).<u></u><u></u></= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">P=C3=B6ppel, E. (1997). A hierarchical model of tempor= al perception. <i>Trends in Cognitive Sciences, 1,</i> 56-61.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Wallin, J. E. W. (1911). Experimental studies of rhyth= m and time. I. Qualitative limens or grades of rhythm, and the difference l= imen in the perception of time. <i>Psychological Review, 18,</i> 100-131.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Wallin, J. E. W. (1911). Experimental studies of rhyth= m and time. II.The preferred length of interval (tempo). <i>Psychological Review, 18,</i> 202-222.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Woodrow, H. (1951). Time perception. In S.S.Stevens (E= d.), <i> Handbook of experimental psychology</i> (pp. 1224-1236). New York: Wiley.<u= ></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">And here are some empirical studies. I think that repe= ated noise is one very useful method to examine the nature of this =E2=80= =9Cpresent=E2=80=9D in more detail, as explored somewhat by Warren and coll= eagues. <u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Madison, G. & Deligni=C3=A8res, D. (2009). Auditor= y feedback affects the long-range correlation of isochronous serial interva= l production. Support for a closed-loop or memory model of timing. <i>Experimental Brain Research, 193,</i> 519-527.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> Mates, J., Radil, T., M=C3=BCller, U., & P=C3=B6ppel, E. (1994). <span = lang=3D"EN-US">Temporal integration in sensorimotor synchronization. <i>Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience, 6,</i> 332-340.<u></u><u></u></span><= /p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial"= ;,sans-serif">Michon, J. A. (1964). Studies on subjective duration: I. Diff= erential sensitivity in the perception of repeated temporal intervals. </span><i><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",san= s-serif">Acta Psychologica, 22,</span></i><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f= ont-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> 441-450.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Brubaker, B. S. & Warren, R. M. (1987). Detection = of infratonal repetition of frozen noise: Singularity recognition or patter= n recognition? <i>Journal of the Acoustical Society of America, 82,</i> S93.<u></u><u></u>= </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Warren, R. M., Gardner, D. A., Brubaker, B. S., & = Bashford, J. A. (1991). Melodic and nonmelodic sequences of tones: effects = of duration on perception. <i>Music Perception, 8,</i> 277-290.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US">Warren, R. M. (1993). Perception of acoustic sequences= : global integration versus temporal resolution. In S.McAdams & E. Biga= nd (Eds.), <i>Thinking in sound. The cognitive psychology of human audition</i>=C2=A0 = (pp. 37-68). Oxford, UK: Clarendon Press.<u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><= /span><span><u></u><u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"m_1418839850833542937_m_-2456415464104895= 177_m_7845692764355522227_m_6963773695464083600_m_-4822614612727074825__Mai= lEndCompose"><span lang=3D"EN-US">/Guy<u></u><u></u></span></a></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang= =3D"EN-US"> AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception [mailto:<a href=3D"m= ailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<wb= r>CA</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dario Sanfilippo<br> <b>Sent:</b> den 1 februari 2017 15:40<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">AU= DITORY@xxxxxxxx</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Maximum temporal window for pattern recognition and the per= ception of redundancy<u></u><u></u></span></p><span> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello, dear list.<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would like to ask you a couple of questions and I = will be very grateful if you could help me. It would be great to be pointed= out to specific publications, thank you so much in advance for that.<u></u= ><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">The first question is on the maximum temporal window= for the recognition of patterns in long-term audio events. Generally speak= ing, what is the largest (temporal) distance between audio events so that w= e can still process such events as interrelated? As an example, let's assume to have a sequence of differ= ent pitches equally spaced in time; what is the largest possible distance b= etween them to still be able to perceive a melody?<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">The second question is on the perception of redundan= cy in relatively complex (i.e., dynamical equilibrium) long-term audio even= ts. As an example, think of the sound of the sea: its internal structure is= never the same although it keeps a strong identity from a global point of view. I believe that this is high= ly dependent on both the cultural background of the listener as well as the= degree of complexity of the audio event itself, but is there any study whi= ch tries to relate the perception of redundancy (i.e., the moment in which the listener's attention drop= s) with a specific temporal window? And is there a connection or similarity= between this window and the one described in my first question?<u></u><u><= /u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you and best wishes.<u></u><u></u></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"all"> <u></u><u></u></p> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dario<u></u><u></u></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </span></div> </div> </blockquote></div><br></div></div> --f403045f89c4bf7d3c05479ecb55--