Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Neutral sound for a relaxation experiment, Bog the Frog From: Kevin Austin <kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 00:41:49 -0400 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--Apple-Mail=_1E873677-5DD0-48D6-9E49-17E3A4F9B74B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Or perhaps Frogs in the Bogs. Of interest to the computer music synthesis community might be the = anecdote told to me by Dike Newlin = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dika_Newlin = <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dika_Newlin> of her invitation to work in = the Bell Labs just after the time of Daisy. When she arrived she = listened to the crickets and frogs in a local swamp and said that she = wanted to program the system to sound like the swamp. As she told it to = me, the suggestion was not well received. :-] Perhaps HAL=E2=80=99s = character would have been different growing up in a computer generated = swamp. Kevin > On 2017, Sep 20, at 3:48 AM, Peter Lennox <P.Lennox@xxxxxxxx> = wrote: >=20 > I've noticed cricket commentaries to be pretty low valence =F0=9F=98=89 > Seriously, I've even heard a composed 'ambient background' track that = featured low-level cricket commentary - very soothing >=20 > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA > Senior Lecturer in Perception > College of Arts, Humanities and Education=20 > School of Arts=20 > =20 > e: p.lennox@xxxxxxxx <mailto:p.lennox@xxxxxxxx> > t: 01332 593155 > =20 > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox = <https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox = <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox> > =20 > University of Derby, > Kedleston Road, > Derby, > DE22 1GB, UK > From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception = <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx>> on behalf = of ginacollecchia <maximumrandb503@xxxxxxxx = <mailto:maximumrandb503@xxxxxxxx>> > Sent: 20 September 2017 05:54:20 > To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: Neutral sound for a relaxation experiment > =20 > I would also stray from anything algorithmically generated that is = intended to be low-valence. You run too much risk of the brain = identifying or trying to identify the patterns. That could result in a = pretty emotional response to the discovery (or suspicion) that the = sounds might not be authentic. (Lots of thoughts of the =E2=80=9Cuncanny = valley of sound=E2=80=9D now, hmm.) >=20 > In spite of that statement, I would choose low-passed, algorithmically = generated white noise, e.g. pink noise, at a low volume=E2=80=94the = sorts of sounds white noise machines and other sounds intended to = silence the mind for sleep. You could use a recording instead, but make = sure it doesn=E2=80=99t have to loop, as I=E2=80=99ve found that = distracting. >=20 > Hope that helps. >=20 > -- > Gina Collecchia > http://ginacollecchia.com <http://ginacollecchia.com/> >> On Sep 19, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Kevin Austin <kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx = <mailto:kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: >>=20 >> Having recorded ocean waves since the mid-1970s, I would suggest a = good recording of ocean waves rather than an algorithmic version of AM = white noise, as I have found that real [acoustical] ocean waves are = among the most complex =E2=80=98simple sounds=E2=80=99 in nature. There = are usually multiple asynchronous cycles, and there is, IME, never one = simple wave. Each wave is a continuously evolving noise complex with = lots of variables. These include spectral changes resembling band reject = filters, phase shifters and transient resonances. >>=20 >> The wave breaking on the beach adds two more basic elements, one the = wave collapsing onto the beach itself, and the other the =E2=80=98sucking = back=E2=80=99 that occurs as the water recedes and stones and particles = tumble back into the ocean. This is added to by the number of waves = which can be heard from any one place. >>=20 >> For some people I have met, the sound of moving water installs fear. = I would suggest the sound of a gentle wind in tall pine trees. >>=20 >>=20 >> Kevin >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 2017, Sep 19, at 8:11 AM, Bob Masta <audio@xxxxxxxx = <mailto:audio@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: >>>=20 >>> How about "surf" sound, such as white noise with a slow=20 >>> AM modulation? Easy to generate "live", and can run for=20 >>> as long as you want. More soothing than continuous=20 >>> white, pink, or "colored" noise. >>>=20 >>> If you don't already have a suitable system, the signal=20 >>> Generator in my Daqarta for Windows software can do=20 >>> this with any Windows sound card. Let me know if you=20 >>> are interested, and I can get you started with a Generator=20 >>> setup which you can easily modify to change AM depth or=20 >>> rate, etc. =20 >>>=20 >>> Since it only uses the Generator, it's free! (Keeps working=20 >>> even after the trial period expires.) >>>=20 >>> Best regards, >>>=20 >>> Bob Masta >>>=20 >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>=20 >>> On 19 Sep 2017 at 11:05, Aurore Hakoun wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Dear list, >>>>=20 >>>> One of my colleagues is conducting a study about the comparison of = EEG activity between two relaxation conditions: a postural relaxation = versus a voice-guided relaxation. >>>> She would need an emotionally neutral auditory stimulation for one = of her conditions. This neutral hearing stimulus will last 20 min. >>>>=20 >>>> Do you have any clue about what kind of neutral sound she could = use? >>>>=20 >>>> Many thanks in advance, >>>>=20 >>>> Best regards, >>>>=20 >>>> Aurore Jaumard-Hakoun. >=20 >=20 >=20 > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and = reserves the right to monitor email traffic.=20 > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the = sender and let them know. >=20 > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ = <http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/> --Apple-Mail=_1E873677-5DD0-48D6-9E49-17E3A4F9B74B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" = class=3D""><div class=3D"">Or perhaps Frogs in the Bogs.</div><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Of interest to the = computer music synthesis community might be the anecdote told to me by = Dike Newlin <a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dika_Newlin" = class=3D"">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dika_Newlin</a> of her = invitation to work in the Bell Labs just after the time of Daisy. When = she arrived she listened to the crickets and frogs in a local swamp and = said that she wanted to program the system to sound like the swamp. As = she told it to me, the suggestion was not well received. :-] = Perhaps HAL=E2=80=99s character would have been different growing = up in a computer generated swamp.</div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D"">Kevin</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div><blockquote = type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 2017, Sep 20, at 3:48 AM, = Peter Lennox <<a href=3D"mailto:P.Lennox@xxxxxxxx" = class=3D"">P.Lennox@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div = id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: = 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">I've noticed = cricket commentaries to be pretty low valence<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span = class=3D"">=F0=9F=98=89</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">Seriously, I've even heard a composed = 'ambient background' track that featured low-level cricket commentary - = very soothing<br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div id=3D"Signature"= class=3D""><div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" dir=3D"ltr" = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, = sans-serif, EmojiFont, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', = NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols;" = class=3D""><div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2" class=3D""><div = class=3D"PlainText"><span id=3D"ms-rterangepaste-start" = class=3D""></span><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA</div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">Senior = Lecturer in Perception</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">College of Arts, Humanities and = Education<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">School of = Arts<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><p = class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: = 0px;"> </p><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" = class=3D"">e:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"mailto:p.lennox@xxxxxxxx" id=3D"LPNoLP" = class=3D"">p.lennox@xxxxxxxx</a></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">t: 01332 593155</div><p = class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: = 0px;"> </p><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" = class=3D""><a href=3D"https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox" = id=3D"LPNoLP" = class=3D"">https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox</a></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D""><a = href=3D"https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox" id=3D"LPNoLP" = class=3D"">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox</a></div><p = class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: = 0px;"> </p><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" = class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, = sans-serif;" class=3D"">University of Derby,<br class=3D"">Kedleston = Road,<br class=3D"">Derby,<br class=3D"">DE22 1GB, = UK</span></div></div><span id=3D"ms-rterangepaste-end" = class=3D""></span></div></font></div></div></div></div><hr tabindex=3D"-1"= style=3D"font-family: CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = display: inline-block; width: 1618.953125px;" class=3D""><span = style=3D"font-family: CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D""></span><div = id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family: CourierNewPSMT; = font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><font = face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><b = class=3D"">From:</b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>AUDITORY - Research in = Auditory Perception <<a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" = class=3D"">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a>> on behalf of ginacollecchia = <<a href=3D"mailto:maximumrandb503@xxxxxxxx" = class=3D"">maximumrandb503@xxxxxxxx</a>><br class=3D""><b = class=3D"">Sent:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>20 = September 2017 05:54:20<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" = class=3D"">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a><br class=3D""><b = class=3D"">Subject:</b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: Neutral sound for a = relaxation experiment</font><div class=3D""> </div></div><div = style=3D"font-family: CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" = class=3D"">I would also stray from anything algorithmically generated = that is intended to be low-valence. You run too much risk of the brain = identifying or trying to identify the patterns. That could result in a = pretty emotional response to the discovery (or suspicion) that the = sounds might not be authentic. (Lots of thoughts of the =E2=80=9Cuncanny = valley of sound=E2=80=9D now, hmm.)<div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">In spite of that statement, I would = choose low-passed, algorithmically generated white noise, e.g. pink = noise, at a low volume=E2=80=94the sorts of sounds white noise machines = and other sounds intended to silence the mind for sleep. You could use a = recording instead, but make sure it doesn=E2=80=99t have to loop, as = I=E2=80=99ve found that distracting.</div><div class=3D""><br = class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Hope that helps.<br class=3D""><div = class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">--</div><div class=3D"" = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Gina = Collecchia</div><div class=3D"" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><a = href=3D"http://ginacollecchia.com/" = class=3D"">http://ginacollecchia.com</a></div></div><br class=3D""><div = class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Sep = 19, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Kevin Austin <<a = href=3D"mailto:kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx" = class=3D"">kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Having= recorded ocean waves since the mid-1970s, I would suggest a good = recording of ocean waves rather than an algorithmic version of AM white = noise, as I have found that real [acoustical] ocean waves are among the = most complex =E2=80=98simple sounds=E2=80=99 in nature. There are = usually multiple asynchronous cycles, and there is, IME, never one = simple wave. Each wave is a continuously evolving noise complex with = lots of variables. These include spectral changes resembling band reject = filters, phase shifters and transient resonances.<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">The wave breaking on the beach adds two more basic elements, = one the wave collapsing onto the beach itself, and the other the = =E2=80=98sucking back=E2=80=99 that occurs as the water recedes and = stones and particles tumble back into the ocean. This is added to by the = number of waves which can be heard from any one place.<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">For some people I have met, the sound of moving water = installs fear. I would suggest the sound of a gentle wind in tall pine = trees.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Kevin<br class=3D""><br= class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote = type=3D"cite" class=3D"">On 2017, Sep 19, at 8:11 AM, Bob Masta <<a = href=3D"mailto:audio@xxxxxxxx" class=3D"">audio@xxxxxxxx</a>> = wrote:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">How about "surf" sound, such as = white noise with a slow<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D"">AM = modulation? Easy to generate "live", and can run for<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D"">as long as = you want. More soothing than continuous<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D"">white, pink, = or "colored" noise.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">If you don't already = have a suitable system, the signal<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D"">Generator in = my Daqarta for Windows software can do<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D"">this with = any Windows sound card. Let me know if you<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D"">are = interested, and I can get you started with a Generator<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D"">setup which = you can easily modify to change AM depth or<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D"">rate, etc. = <br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Since it only uses the = Generator, it's free! (Keeps working<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D"">even after = the trial period expires.)<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Best regards,<br = class=3D""><br class=3D"">Bob Masta<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">On 19 Sep 2017 at 11:05, Aurore = Hakoun wrote:<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" = class=3D"">Dear list,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">One of my colleagues = is conducting a study about the comparison of EEG activity between two = relaxation conditions: a postural relaxation versus a voice-guided = relaxation.<br class=3D"">She would need an emotionally neutral auditory = stimulation for one of her conditions. This neutral hearing stimulus = will last 20 min.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Do you have any clue = about what kind of neutral sound she could use?<br class=3D""><br = class=3D"">Many thanks in advance,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Best = regards,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Aurore Jaumard-Hakoun.<br = class=3D""></blockquote></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br = class=3D""></div></div></div><br style=3D"font-family: CourierNewPSMT; = font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br = style=3D"font-family: CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" = class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 18px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline = !important;" class=3D"">The University of Derby has a published policy = regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic.<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br = style=3D"font-family: CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" = class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 18px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline = !important;" class=3D"">If you believe this was sent to you in error, = please reply to the sender and let them know.</span><br = style=3D"font-family: CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" = class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 18px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: = CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: = inline !important;" class=3D"">Key University contacts:<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a = href=3D"http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/" style=3D"font-family: = CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" = class=3D"">http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/</a><span = style=3D"font-family: CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = float: none; display: inline !important;" = class=3D""></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_1E873677-5DD0-48D6-9E49-17E3A4F9B74B--