Subject: Re: Neural mechanisms of octave equivalence From: Pierre Divenyi <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:55:18 -0500 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------98DDB39E41657FEE956BEB14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by edgeum1.it.mcgill.ca id u8OEtQ2o031213 Hi Ani, Alain's point that the equivalence/resemblance of a tone and its octave=20 is asymmetric could be also substantiated by even a superficial combing=20 through musical examples of upward vs. downward leaps in melodies, or of=20 the composer achieving continuity of a melodic line with its segments=20 appearing either an octave higher or lower. It would be an interesting=20 project for a student to gather examples and counterexamples of such=20 melodic treatments, and then to see how they relate to the various pitch=20 theories (or vice-versa). Best, -Pierre On 9/24/16 2:59 AM, Alain de Cheveigne wrote: > Hi Ani, > > Octave =E2=80=9Cequivalence=E2=80=9D is an emergent property of both pa= ttern-matching and autocorrelation models of pitch. All harmonics of the = tone at the octave belong to the harmonic series of the lower tone. Like= wise autocorrelation peaks of the lower tone coincide with peaks of the t= one at the octave. Some neural instantiations of these models are Shihab= Shamma=E2=80=99s harmonic template model, or Cariani=E2=80=99s work on a= utocorrelation (based on Licklider=E2=80=99s ideas), and there are many o= thers. Whether or not any specific model is supported by anatomical or e= lectrophysiological data is less clear. > > Actually =E2=80=9Cequivalence=E2=80=9D is a misnomer. The relation is n= ot commutative: the harmonics of the lower tone do not all belong to the = harmonic series of the octave. Likewise peaks of the autocorrelation of = the octave tone are not all peaks of the lower tone. Thus these models w= ould predict an asymmetry in the perceptual similarity between octaves (i= .e. an octave tone =E2=80=9Cresembles=E2=80=9D the lower tone but not vic= e-versa). I don=E2=80=99t know of any relevant behavioral data or music-= theoretical results on this. > > Alain > > =E2=80=94 > de Cheveign=C3=A9, A. (2005) Pitch perception models. In: Pitch - Neura= l coding and perception (Plack C, Oxenham A, eds). New York: Springer, 16= 9-233. (http://audition.ens.fr/adc/pdf/2005_pitch_SHAR.pdf) > Shamma S, and Klein D (2000) The case of the missing pitch templates: h= ow harmonic templates emerge in the early auditory system. J Acoust Soc A= m 107:2631-2644. > Cariani PA, and Delgutte B (1996b) Neural correlates of the pitch of co= mplex tones. II. Pitch shift, pitch ambiguity, phase-invariance, pitch ci= rcularity, rate-pitch and the dominance region for pitch. J Neurophysiol = 76:1717-1734. > Licklider JCR (1951) A duplex theory of pitch perception (reproduced in= Schubert 1979, 155-160). Experientia 7:128-134. > > >> On 23 Sep 2016, at 13:06, Patel, Aniruddh D. <a.patel@xxxxxxxx> wrote= : >> >> Dear List, >> =20 >> Is anyone aware on theoretical or empirical papers on the neural mecha= nisms of octave equivalence in auditory perception? >> =20 >> Interestingly, recent works suggests that songbirds may not perceive o= ctave equivalence: >> =20 >> Hoeschele, M., Weisman, R. G., Guillette, L. M., Hahn, A. H., & Sturdy= , C. B. (2013). Chickadees fail standardized operant tests for octave equ= ivalence. Animal cognition, 16(4), 599-609. >> =20 >> Thanks, >> =20 >> Ani Patel >> =20 >> Aniruddh D. Patel >> Professor >> Dept. of Psychology >> Tufts University >> 490 Boston Ave. >> Medford, MA 02155 >> =20 >> Senior Fellow >> Canadian Institute for Advanced Research (CIFAR) >> Azrieli Program in Brain, Mind, & Consciousness >> =20 >> a.patel@xxxxxxxx >> http://ase.tufts.edu/psychology/people/patel/ --------------98DDB39E41657FEE956BEB14 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by edgeum1.it.mcgill.ca id u8OEtQ2o031213 <html> <head> <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" http-equiv=3D"Content-Ty= pe"> </head> <body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000"> <p><font face=3D"Calibri">Hi Ani,</font></p> <font face=3D"Calibri">Alain's point that the equivalence/resemblance of a tone and its octave is asymmetric could be also substantiated by even a superficial combing through musical examples of upward vs. downward leaps in melodies, or of the composer achieving continuity of a melodic line with its segments appearing either an octave higher or lower. It would be an interesting project for a student to gather examples and counterexamples of such melodic treatments, and then to see how they relate to the various pitch theories (or vice-versa).<br> <br> Best,<br> -Pierre<br> </font><br> <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 9/24/16 2:59 AM, Alain de Cheveigne wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote cite=3D"mid:5718_1474709464_57E647D8_5718_572_1_21E07610-7E8E-4CEF-ACB1-4= 88EAB7362D3@xxxxxxxx" type=3D"cite"> <pre wrap=3D"">Hi Ani,=20 Octave =E2=80=9Cequivalence=E2=80=9D is an emergent property of both patt= ern-matching and autocorrelation models of pitch. All harmonics of the to= ne at the octave belong to the harmonic series of the lower tone. Likewi= se autocorrelation peaks of the lower tone coincide with peaks of the ton= e at the octave. Some neural instantiations of these models are Shihab S= hamma=E2=80=99s harmonic template model, or Cariani=E2=80=99s work on aut= ocorrelation (based on Licklider=E2=80=99s ideas), and there are many oth= ers. Whether or not any specific model is supported by anatomical or ele= ctrophysiological data is less clear. Actually =E2=80=9Cequivalence=E2=80=9D is a misnomer. The relation is not= commutative: the harmonics of the lower tone do not all belong to the ha= rmonic series of the octave. Likewise peaks of the autocorrelation of th= e octave tone are not all peaks of the lower tone. Thus these models wou= ld predict an asymmetry in the perceptual similarity between octaves (i.e= . an octave tone =E2=80=9Cresembles=E2=80=9D the lower tone but not vice-= versa). I don=E2=80=99t know of any relevant behavioral data or music-th= eoretical results on this. Alain =E2=80=94 de Cheveign=C3=A9, A. (2005) Pitch perception models. In: Pitch - Neural = coding and perception (Plack C, Oxenham A, eds). New York: Springer, 169-= 233. (<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://audition.ens.fr/a= dc/pdf/2005_pitch_SHAR.pdf">http://audition.ens.fr/adc/pdf/2005_pitch_SHA= R.pdf</a>) Shamma S, and Klein D (2000) The case of the missing pitch templates: how= harmonic templates emerge in the early auditory system. J Acoust Soc Am = 107:2631-2644. Cariani PA, and Delgutte B (1996b) Neural correlates of the pitch of comp= lex tones. II. Pitch shift, pitch ambiguity, phase-invariance, pitch circ= ularity, rate-pitch and the dominance region for pitch. J Neurophysiol 76= :1717-1734. Licklider JCR (1951) A duplex theory of pitch perception (reproduced in S= chubert 1979, 155-160). Experientia 7:128-134. </pre> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <pre wrap=3D"">On 23 Sep 2016, at 13:06, Patel, Aniruddh D. <a cl= ass=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:a.patel@xxxxxxxx"><a.pat= el@xxxxxxxx></a> wrote: Dear List, =20 Is anyone aware on theoretical or empirical papers on the neural mechanis= ms of octave equivalence in auditory perception? =20 Interestingly, recent works suggests that songbirds may not perceive octa= ve equivalence: =20 Hoeschele, M., Weisman, R. G., Guillette, L. M., Hahn, A. H., & Sturd= y, C. B. (2013). Chickadees fail standardized operant tests for octave eq= uivalence. Animal cognition, 16(4), 599-609. =20 Thanks, =20 Ani Patel =20 Aniruddh D. Patel Professor Dept. of Psychology Tufts University 490 Boston Ave. Medford, MA 02155 =20 Senior Fellow Canadian Institute for Advanced Research (CIFAR) Azrieli Program in Brain, Mind, & Consciousness =20 <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:a.patel@xxxxxxxx">a= .patel@xxxxxxxx</a> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://ase.tufts.edu/psycholog= y/people/patel/">http://ase.tufts.edu/psychology/people/patel/</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=3D""> </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------98DDB39E41657FEE956BEB14--