Subject: Re: Thompson's "On Binaural Audition" From: "Richard F. Lyon" <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2015 09:08:45 -0800 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--94eb2c036068b687d20523f66931 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just download the book and use Adobe Acrobat Pro to extract pages. No per-page work this way. And the OCR results survive, too. Dick On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Tilak Ratnanather <tilak@xxxxxxxx> wrote= : > There is a trick to extract each page to a png image and then make a pdf > from the set of images. Please let me know if you need any help. > > > > For what it is worth, I was destined to be a mathematician after my fathe= r > gave me a copy of Silvanus P Thompson=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CCalculus Made Ea= sy=E2=80=9D for my 14th > birthday. It is available online at the Gutenberg Free Press. > > > > Regards > > > > Tilak > > > > J T Ratnanather DPhil > > Associate Research Professor > > Center for Imaging Science and Institute for Computational Medicine > > Department of Biomedical Engineering > > The Johns Hopkins University > > Baltimore MD 21218 > > > > *From:* AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception [mailto: > AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx *On Behalf Of *Richard F. Lyon > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 03, 2015 2:11 PM > *To:* AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx > *Subject:* Re: Thompson's "On Binaural Audition" > > > > It turns out these papers are free online in Google Book search, which is > where HathiTrust got their copy that a reader kindly sent me. > > 1877: On Binaural Audition: > https://books.google.com/books?id=3DDVUEAAAAYAAJ&pg=3DPA274#v=3Donepage&q= &f=3Dfalse > > 1878 Part II: > https://books.google.com/books?id=3D_ZpJAQAAMAAJ&pg=3DPA383#v=3Donepage&q= &f=3Dfalse > > 1881 Part III: > https://books.google.com/books?id=3D-hlKAQAAMAAJ&pg=3DPA351#v=3Donepage&q= &f=3Dfalse > > There are so many references to them that it's hard to find them in Googl= e > Book Search. Also OCR errors don't help (like Sylvantis). > > Restricting the search date range sometimes helps, but it's still sporadi= c > whether they get found or not. Very odd. > > Dick > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Three people sent me copies and I've sent copies to 4 people who requeste= d > them. > > These are definitely in the public domain in the US at least (or so the > cover page states), > > so if anyone else wants a copy, just ask me. > > > > I was particularly interested because of what Wilson and Myers said in > 1908 about the "unwelcome hypothosesis" that phase could be compared > centrally: > > "... Thompson concluded that under the conditions of binaural hearing > above described, the tone-stimulus is transmitted along each auditory ner= ve > to some common cerebral centre and that at this centre the beats arise. B= ut > this and the following interesting fact, also observed by Thompson, can b= e > explained without recourse to such an unwelcome hypothesis, if we suppose > that each tone is transmitted by bone conduction to the opposite ear and > that the beats heard are due to the play of the two series of vibrations = of > different frequency on one and the same sense organ" > > I wondered if Thompson really proposed such an "unwelcome hypothesis", a > central comparison of waveforms from the two sides. What I find it that = he > rather carefully danced around the idea, suggesting it but not saying it, > and trying to rule out bone conduction, in 1877: > > "5. It is not easy to explain why interference-beats should thus occur > in the simultaneous individual action of the two ears, while combinationa= l > tones (difference-tones) are inaudible. There is in the case of the > auditory nerves, or portio mollis, no decussation like that of the optic > nerves; the former do not intersect after leaving the fourth ventricle, i= n > which they have their common origin, and from which they diverge ri ht an= d > left. _ There is in health a possible communication between the ears acro= ss > the pharynx, through the Eustachian tubes. Moreover the bone of the skull > itself is capable of conveying sonorous tremors, which might account for > both ears hearing a sound entering by one only. In either of these latter > cases, however, there would be no reason why combinational tones should n= ot > be equally audible in binaural as in monaural audition; so that we are > driven to the hypothesis that any means of comparison which may exist in > the nerve systems of the ears exists deep-seated in the actual structure = of > the brain. This may be the reason why dissonances are in binaural auditio= n > so excessively dis agreeable, and why even ordinary consonant intervals > become harsh. They evoke a discontinuous sensation when there is no > opportunity of their blending previously to acting upon the sensitive > mechanism of the nerve-structures. The discontinuity of the sensation > produces an intensity of effect exceeding that of a continuous one. Hence > sounds all but in audible themselves may yield, as noted in No. 2, very > well marked beats, enabling the ear thus to detect the most delicate > differences of tone. > > > and again in 1878: > "There is no decussation of the auditory nerves, like that of the > optic nerves, to account for a blending of the sensations. The portio > mollis of the right does not intersect or have any commissure with the > portio mollis of the left after leaving the fourth ventricle of the brain= , > from which they originate. This point deserves the attention of anatomist= s > and physiologists." > > He seems to neglect the possibility that the signals could be compared in > the brainstem (where we now know the olivary complex does just that). > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> wrote= : > > Thanks, got them! > > Dick > > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> wrote= : > > Does anyone have copies of Sylvanus P. Thompson's articles "On Binaural > Audition" and its follow-on "Phenomena of binaural audition=E2=80=94Part = II" in > Philosophical Magazine? > > These would seem to be in the public domain, but the only copies I can > find online are for sale at an exorbitant rate: > 1877: > http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786447708639338?journalCode= =3Dtphm16 > 1878: > http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786447808639528?journalCode= =3Dtphm16 > > Dick > > > > > > > --94eb2c036068b687d20523f66931 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>I just download the book and use Adobe Acrobat P= ro to extract pages.<br></div>No per-page work this way.=C2=A0 And the OCR = results survive, too.<br><br></div>Dick<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_ex= tra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Tilak R= atnanather <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:tilak@xxxxxxxx" targe= t=3D"_blank">tilak@xxxxxxxx</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd= ing-left:1ex"><div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US"><div><p cl= ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri= ","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">There is a trick to extract ea= ch page to a png image and then make a pdf from the set of images. Please l= et me know if you need any help.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor= mal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","= sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"= MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",= "sans-serif";color:#1f497d">For what it is worth, I was destined = to be a mathematician after my father gave me a copy of Silvanus P Thompson= =E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CCalculus Made Easy=E2=80=9D for my 14<sup>th</sup> birt= hday. It is available online at the Gutenberg Free Press.<u></u><u></u></sp= an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&= quot;Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></= u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa= mily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Regards<u></= u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;= font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></= u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1= 1.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"= >Tilak<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s= ize:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f= 497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"= font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";col= or:#1f497d">J T Ratnanather DPhil<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D"">= <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca= libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Associate Research Profes= sor<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size= :11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497= d">Center for Imaging Science and Institute for Computational Medicine<u></= u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;= font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Depar= tment of Biomedical Engineering<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm= al"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","s= ans-serif";color:#1f497d">The Johns Hopkins University<u></u><u></u></= span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family= :"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Baltimore MD 212= 18<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:= 11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d= "><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span sty= le=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"= ;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma= ","sans-serif""> AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception = [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">AUDIT= ORY@xxxxxxxx</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard F. Lyon<br><b>Sent:</b= > Tuesday, November 03, 2015 2:11 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:AUDITO= RY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a><span cla= ss=3D""><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Thompson's "On Binaural Audition&q= uot;<u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>= </u></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">It turns out these = papers are free online in Google Book search, which is where HathiTrust got= their copy that a reader kindly sent me.<span class=3D""><br><br>1877: On = Binaural Audition: <a href=3D"https://books.google.com/books?id=3DDVUEAAAAY= AAJ&pg=3DPA274#v=3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse" target=3D"_blank">https= ://books.google.com/books?id=3DDVUEAAAAYAAJ&pg=3DPA274#v=3Donepage&= q&f=3Dfalse</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><span class=3D""><div><p = class=3D"MsoNormal">1878 Part II: <a href=3D"https://books.google.com/books= ?id=3D_ZpJAQAAMAAJ&pg=3DPA383#v=3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse" target= =3D"_blank">https://books.google.com/books?id=3D_ZpJAQAAMAAJ&pg=3DPA383= #v=3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"Mso= Normal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">1881 Part III: <a href=3D"https://bo= oks.google.com/books?id=3D-hlKAQAAMAAJ&pg=3DPA351#v=3Donepage&q&= ;f=3Dfalse" target=3D"_blank">https://books.google.com/books?id=3D-hlKAQAAM= AAJ&pg=3DPA351#v=3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse</a><u></u><u></u></p></s= pan></div><span class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">There are so many referen= ces to them that it's hard to find them in Google Book Search.=C2=A0 Al= so OCR errors don't help (like Sylvantis).<u></u><u></u></p></span></di= v><span class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Re= stricting the search date range sometimes helps, but it's still sporadi= c whether they get found or not.=C2=A0 Very odd.<u></u><u></u></p></span></= div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dick<u></u><u></u= ></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u= >=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div><p class=3D= "MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sun, Nov= 1, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Richard F. Lyon <<a href=3D"mailto:dicklyon@xxxxxxxx= " target=3D"_blank">dicklyon@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><= div><div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Three people sent me copies = and I've sent copies to 4 people who requested them.<u></u><u></u></p><= /div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">These are definitely in the public domain in th= e US at least (or so the cover page states),<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p= class=3D"MsoNormal">so if anyone else wants a copy, just ask me.<u></u><u>= </u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><p = class=3D"MsoNormal">I was particularly interested because of what Wilson an= d Myers said in 1908 about the "unwelcome hypothosesis" that phas= e could be compared centrally:<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal= " style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">"... Thompson concluded that under th= e conditions of binaural hearing above described, the tone-stimulus is tran= smitted along each auditory nerve to some common cerebral centre and that a= t this centre the beats arise. But this and the following interesting fact,= also observed by Thompson, can be explained without recourse to such an un= welcome hypothesis, if we suppose that each tone is transmitted by bone con= duction to the opposite ear and that the beats heard are due to the play of= the two series of vibrations of different frequency on one and the same se= nse organ"<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I wondered if= Thompson really proposed such an "unwelcome hypothesis", a centr= al comparison of waveforms from the two sides.=C2=A0 What I find it that he= rather carefully danced around the idea, suggesting it but not saying it, = and trying to rule out bone conduction, in 1877:<br><br>=C2=A0 "5.=C2= =A0 It is not easy to explain why interference-beats should thus occur in t= he simultaneous individual action of the two ears, while combinational tone= s (difference-tones) are inaudible. There is in the case of the auditory ne= rves, or portio mollis, no decussation like that of the optic nerves; the f= ormer do not intersect after leaving the fourth ventricle, in which they ha= ve their common origin, and from which they diverge ri ht and left. _ There= is in health a possible communication between the ears across the pharynx,= through the Eustachian tubes. Moreover the bone of the skull itself is cap= able of conveying sonorous tremors, which might account for both ears heari= ng a sound entering by one only. In either of these latter cases, however, = there would be no reason why combinational tones should not be equally audi= ble in binaural as in monaural audition; so that we are driven to the hypot= hesis that any means of comparison which may exist in the nerve systems of = the ears exists deep-seated in the actual structure of the brain. This may = be the reason why dissonances are in binaural audition so excessively dis a= greeable, and why even ordinary consonant intervals become harsh. They evok= e a discontinuous sensation when there is no opportunity of their blending = previously to acting upon the sensitive mechanism of the nerve-structures. = The discontinuity of the sensation produces an intensity of effect exceedin= g that of a continuous one. Hence sounds all but in audible themselves may = yield, as noted in No. 2, very well marked beats, enabling the ear thus to = detect the most delicate differences of tone.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>and again in 1878:= <br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "There is no decussation of the auditory nerves= , like that of the optic nerves, to account for a blending of the sensation= s. The portio mollis of the right does not intersect or have any commissure= with the portio mollis of the left after leaving the fourth ventricle of t= he brain, from which they originate. This point deserves the attention of a= natomists and physiologists."<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"= MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">He seems to neglect the possibili= ty that the signals could be compared in the brainstem (where we now know t= he olivary complex does just that).<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D= "MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2= =A0<u></u></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2= =A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 9:10 AM, = Richard F. Lyon <<a href=3D"mailto:dicklyon@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">d= icklyon@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNo= rmal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks, got them!<u></u><u></u></p></d= iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dick<u></u><u></u>= </p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class= =3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Richard F. Lyon <<a href= =3D"mailto:dicklyon@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">dicklyon@xxxxxxxx</a>> wro= te:<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left= :solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-rig= ht:0in"><div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:1= 2.0pt">Does anyone have copies of Sylvanus P. Thompson's articles "= ;On Binaural Audition" and its follow-on "Phenomena of binaural a= udition=E2=80=94Part II" in Philosophical Magazine?<br><br>These would= seem to be in the public domain, but the only copies I can find online are= for sale at an exorbitant rate:<br>1877: <a href=3D"http://www.tandfonline= .com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786447708639338?journalCode=3Dtphm16" target=3D"_bla= nk">http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786447708639338?journalCod= e=3Dtphm16</a><br>1878: <a href=3D"http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.10= 80/14786447808639528?journalCode=3Dtphm16" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tan= dfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786447808639528?journalCode=3Dtphm16</a><u><= /u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">D= ick<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><p cl= ass=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal= "><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNorm= al"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></di= v><br></div> --94eb2c036068b687d20523f66931--