Subject: Re: Thompson's "On Binaural Audition" From: Tilak Ratnanather <tilak@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 10:11:07 -0500 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01D1187B.73DCF6C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is a trick to extract each page to a png image and then make a pdf = from the set of images. Please let me know if you need any help. =20 For what it is worth, I was destined to be a mathematician after my = father gave me a copy of Silvanus P Thompson=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CCalculus = Made Easy=E2=80=9D for my 14th birthday. It is available online at the = Gutenberg Free Press. =20 Regards =20 Tilak =20 J T Ratnanather DPhil Associate Research Professor Center for Imaging Science and Institute for Computational Medicine Department of Biomedical Engineering The Johns Hopkins University Baltimore MD 21218 =20 From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception = [mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Richard F. Lyon Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 2:11 PM To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Thompson's "On Binaural Audition" =20 It turns out these papers are free online in Google Book search, which = is where HathiTrust got their copy that a reader kindly sent me. 1877: On Binaural Audition: = https://books.google.com/books?id=3DDVUEAAAAYAAJ = <https://books.google.com/books?id=3DDVUEAAAAYAAJ&pg=3DPA274#v=3Donepage&= q&f=3Dfalse> &pg=3DPA274#v=3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse 1878 Part II: https://books.google.com/books?id=3D_ZpJAQAAMAAJ = <https://books.google.com/books?id=3D_ZpJAQAAMAAJ&pg=3DPA383#v=3Donepage&= q&f=3Dfalse> &pg=3DPA383#v=3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse 1881 Part III: https://books.google.com/books?id=3D-hlKAQAAMAAJ = <https://books.google.com/books?id=3D-hlKAQAAMAAJ&pg=3DPA351#v=3Donepage&= q&f=3Dfalse> &pg=3DPA351#v=3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse There are so many references to them that it's hard to find them in = Google Book Search. Also OCR errors don't help (like Sylvantis). Restricting the search date range sometimes helps, but it's still = sporadic whether they get found or not. Very odd. Dick =20 =20 On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> = wrote: Three people sent me copies and I've sent copies to 4 people who = requested them. These are definitely in the public domain in the US at least (or so the = cover page states), so if anyone else wants a copy, just ask me. =20 I was particularly interested because of what Wilson and Myers said in = 1908 about the "unwelcome hypothosesis" that phase could be compared = centrally: "... Thompson concluded that under the conditions of binaural hearing = above described, the tone-stimulus is transmitted along each auditory = nerve to some common cerebral centre and that at this centre the beats = arise. But this and the following interesting fact, also observed by = Thompson, can be explained without recourse to such an unwelcome = hypothesis, if we suppose that each tone is transmitted by bone = conduction to the opposite ear and that the beats heard are due to the = play of the two series of vibrations of different frequency on one and = the same sense organ" I wondered if Thompson really proposed such an "unwelcome hypothesis", a = central comparison of waveforms from the two sides. What I find it that = he rather carefully danced around the idea, suggesting it but not saying = it, and trying to rule out bone conduction, in 1877: "5. It is not easy to explain why interference-beats should thus = occur in the simultaneous individual action of the two ears, while = combinational tones (difference-tones) are inaudible. There is in the = case of the auditory nerves, or portio mollis, no decussation like that = of the optic nerves; the former do not intersect after leaving the = fourth ventricle, in which they have their common origin, and from which = they diverge ri ht and left. _ There is in health a possible = communication between the ears across the pharynx, through the = Eustachian tubes. Moreover the bone of the skull itself is capable of = conveying sonorous tremors, which might account for both ears hearing a = sound entering by one only. In either of these latter cases, however, = there would be no reason why combinational tones should not be equally = audible in binaural as in monaural audition; so that we are driven to = the hypothesis that any means of comparison which may exist in the nerve = systems of the ears exists deep-seated in the actual structure of the = brain. This may be the reason why dissonances are in binaural audition = so excessively dis agreeable, and why even ordinary consonant intervals = become harsh. They evoke a discontinuous sensation when there is no = opportunity of their blending previously to acting upon the sensitive = mechanism of the nerve-structures. The discontinuity of the sensation = produces an intensity of effect exceeding that of a continuous one. = Hence sounds all but in audible themselves may yield, as noted in No. 2, = very well marked beats, enabling the ear thus to detect the most = delicate differences of tone. and again in 1878: "There is no decussation of the auditory nerves, like that of the = optic nerves, to account for a blending of the sensations. The portio = mollis of the right does not intersect or have any commissure with the = portio mollis of the left after leaving the fourth ventricle of the = brain, from which they originate. This point deserves the attention of = anatomists and physiologists." He seems to neglect the possibility that the signals could be compared = in the brainstem (where we now know the olivary complex does just that). =20 =20 =20 On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> = wrote: Thanks, got them! Dick =20 On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> = wrote: Does anyone have copies of Sylvanus P. Thompson's articles "On Binaural = Audition" and its follow-on "Phenomena of binaural audition=E2=80=94Part = II" in Philosophical Magazine? These would seem to be in the public domain, but the only copies I can = find online are for sale at an exorbitant rate: 1877: = http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786447708639338?journalCode=3D= tphm16 1878: = http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786447808639528?journalCode=3D= tphm16 Dick =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01D1187B.73DCF6C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta = http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta = name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 (filtered = medium)"><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @xxxxxxxx {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @xxxxxxxx {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} @xxxxxxxx WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue = vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>There is a trick to extract each page to a png image and then make a = pdf from the set of images. Please let me know if you need any = help.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>For what it is worth, I was destined to be a mathematician after my = father gave me a copy of Silvanus P Thompson=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CCalculus = Made Easy=E2=80=9D for my 14<sup>th</sup> birthday. It is available = online at the Gutenberg Free Press.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>Tilak<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>J T Ratnanather DPhil<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>Associate Research Professor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>Center for Imaging Science and Institute for Computational = Medicine<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>Department of Biomedical Engineering<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>The Johns Hopkins University<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>Baltimore MD 21218<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>= </b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> = AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception = [mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard F. = Lyon<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 03, 2015 2:11 PM<br><b>To:</b> = AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Thompson's "On = Binaural Audition"<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>It turns out these papers are free online in Google = Book search, which is where HathiTrust got their copy that a reader = kindly sent me.<br><br>1877: On Binaural Audition: <a = href=3D"https://books.google.com/books?id=3DDVUEAAAAYAAJ&pg=3DPA274#v= =3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse">https://books.google.com/books?id=3DDVUEA= AAAYAAJ&pg=3DPA274#v=3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse</a><o:p></o:p></p>= </div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>1878 Part II: <a = href=3D"https://books.google.com/books?id=3D_ZpJAQAAMAAJ&pg=3DPA383#v= =3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse">https://books.google.com/books?id=3D_ZpJA= QAAMAAJ&pg=3DPA383#v=3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse</a><o:p></o:p></p>= </div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>1881 Part III: = <a = href=3D"https://books.google.com/books?id=3D-hlKAQAAMAAJ&pg=3DPA351#v= =3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse">https://books.google.com/books?id=3D-hlKA= QAAMAAJ&pg=3DPA351#v=3Donepage&q&f=3Dfalse</a><o:p></o:p></p>= </div><p class=3DMsoNormal>There are so many references to them that = it's hard to find them in Google Book Search. Also OCR errors = don't help (like Sylvantis).<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Restricting the search date range = sometimes helps, but it's still sporadic whether they get found or = not. Very odd.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Dick<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><di= v><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On = Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Richard F. Lyon <<a = href=3D"mailto:dicklyon@xxxxxxxx" = target=3D"_blank">dicklyon@xxxxxxxx</a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Three people sent me copies and I've sent copies to 4 = people who requested them.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>These are definitely in the public domain in the US at = least (or so the cover page states),<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>so if anyone else wants a copy, just ask = me.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I was = particularly interested because of what Wilson and Myers said in 1908 = about the "unwelcome hypothosesis" that phase could be = compared centrally:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>"... Thompson concluded that under = the conditions of binaural hearing above described, the tone-stimulus is = transmitted along each auditory nerve to some common cerebral centre and = that at this centre the beats arise. But this and the following = interesting fact, also observed by Thompson, can be explained without = recourse to such an unwelcome hypothesis, if we suppose that each tone = is transmitted by bone conduction to the opposite ear and that the beats = heard are due to the play of the two series of vibrations of different = frequency on one and the same sense organ"<o:p></o:p></p></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>I wondered if Thompson really proposed such an = "unwelcome hypothesis", a central comparison of waveforms from = the two sides. What I find it that he rather carefully danced = around the idea, suggesting it but not saying it, and trying to rule out = bone conduction, in 1877:<br><br> "5. It is not easy to = explain why interference-beats should thus occur in the simultaneous = individual action of the two ears, while combinational tones = (difference-tones) are inaudible. There is in the case of the auditory = nerves, or portio mollis, no decussation like that of the optic nerves; = the former do not intersect after leaving the fourth ventricle, in which = they have their common origin, and from which they diverge ri ht and = left. _ There is in health a possible communication between the ears = across the pharynx, through the Eustachian tubes. Moreover the bone of = the skull itself is capable of conveying sonorous tremors, which might = account for both ears hearing a sound entering by one only. In either of = these latter cases, however, there would be no reason why combinational = tones should not be equally audible in binaural as in monaural audition; = so that we are driven to the hypothesis that any means of comparison = which may exist in the nerve systems of the ears exists deep-seated in = the actual structure of the brain. This may be the reason why = dissonances are in binaural audition so excessively dis agreeable, and = why even ordinary consonant intervals become harsh. They evoke a = discontinuous sensation when there is no opportunity of their blending = previously to acting upon the sensitive mechanism of the = nerve-structures. The discontinuity of the sensation produces an = intensity of effect exceeding that of a continuous one. Hence sounds all = but in audible themselves may yield, as noted in No. 2, very well marked = beats, enabling the ear thus to detect the most delicate differences of = tone.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>and again in = 1878:<br> "There is no decussation of the = auditory nerves, like that of the optic nerves, to account for a = blending of the sensations. The portio mollis of the right does not = intersect or have any commissure with the portio mollis of the left = after leaving the fourth ventricle of the brain, from which they = originate. This point deserves the attention of anatomists and = physiologists."<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>He seems to neglect the possibility that = the signals could be compared in the brainstem (where we now know the = olivary complex does just that).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Sat, = Oct 31, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Richard F. Lyon <<a = href=3D"mailto:dicklyon@xxxxxxxx" = target=3D"_blank">dicklyon@xxxxxxxx</a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Thanks, got them!<o:p></o:p></p></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Dick<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Fri, = Oct 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Richard F. Lyon <<a = href=3D"mailto:dicklyon@xxxxxxxx" = target=3D"_blank">dicklyon@xxxxxxxx</a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><blockquote = style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in = 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Does anyone have copies = of Sylvanus P. Thompson's articles "On Binaural Audition" and = its follow-on "Phenomena of binaural audition=E2=80=94Part II" = in Philosophical Magazine?<br><br>These would seem to be in the public = domain, but the only copies I can find online are for sale at an = exorbitant rate:<br>1877: <a = href=3D"http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786447708639338?jour= nalCode=3Dtphm16" = target=3D"_blank">http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/147864477086= 39338?journalCode=3Dtphm16</a><br>1878: <a = href=3D"http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786447808639528?jour= nalCode=3Dtphm16" = target=3D"_blank">http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/147864478086= 39528?journalCode=3Dtphm16</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Dick<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blo= ckquote></div></div></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01D1187B.73DCF6C0--