Re: Got the de Boer & Kuyper paper; question about correlated stimulus components ("J. F. Linden" )

Subject: Re: Got the de Boer & Kuyper paper; question about correlated stimulus components From: "J. F. Linden" <j.linden@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 17:01:52 +0100 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY> --089e0111d1dea002bd05062d4ca3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beware, however, of interactions between nonlinearities in your biological system and higher-order correlations in your stimulus that persist even after application of decorrelation or regularization techniques. http://www.jneurosci.org/content/28/2/446.long On 23 October 2014 11:02, Daniel Shub <Daniel.Shub@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > Theunissen and colleagues ( > http://www.jneurosci.org/content/20/6/2315.abstract) looked at the effect > of stimulus correlation in reverse correlation. That work was based on a > number of previous studies. There is also a review by Wu and colleagues = ( > http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.neuro.29.051605.1130= 24) > that covers the use of natural stimuli in reverse correlation. > > > > Dan > > > > *From:* AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception [mailto: > AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx *On Behalf Of *Oberfeld-Twistel, Daniel > *Sent:* 23 October 2014 10:16 > *To:* AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx > *Subject:* Got the de Boer & Kuyper paper; question about correlated > stimulus components > > > > Got it, thank you very much for you fast responses! > > > > A related question: the classical reverse correlation technique usually > uses the "white noise" idea and assumes that all stimulus components (e.g= ., > acoustic energy in different spectral regions, or all the picture element= s > in > > an image) are *uncorrelated*. In contrast, in studies on "psychophysical > reverse correlation", we use multiple regression analyses which are not > affected by correlated cues/stimulus components (e.g., > http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0050184). > > > > Is anyone aware of a technique for the "classical" reverse correlation as > in the de Boer paper that can be used with correlated stimulus components= ? > > > > Best > > > > Daniel > > > > > > PD Dr. Daniel Oberfeld-Twistel > > Johannes Gutenberg - Universitaet Mainz > > Department of Psychology > > Experimental Psychology > > Wallstrasse 3 > > 55122 Mainz > > Germany > > > > Phone ++49 (0) 6131 39 39274 > > Fax ++49 (0) 6131 39 39268 > > http://www.staff.uni-mainz.de/oberfeld/ > > https://www.facebook.com/WahrnehmungUndPsychophysikUniMainz > > > > *From:* AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception [ > mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of > *Karl Lerud > *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:25 AM > *To:* AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx > *Subject:* Re: Paper request: de Boer, E., & Kuyper, P. (1968). Triggered > correlation. IEEE Transactions on Biomedical Engineering, BM15(3), 169-17= 9. > > > > Here it is. Looks interesting; should give it a read myself. > > > Karl > > > On 10/23/2014 04:04 AM, Oberfeld-Twistel, Daniel wrote: > > Dear list, > > > > does anyone happen to have access to this classical paper on reverse > correlation and could send me a PDF=E2=80=A6.? > > > > de Boer, E., & Kuyper, P. (1968). Triggered correlation. IEEE > Transactions on Biomedical Engineering, BM15(3), 169-179. > > > > Best > > > > Daniel > > > > PD Dr. Daniel Oberfeld-Twistel > > Johannes Gutenberg - Universitaet Mainz > > Department of Psychology > > Experimental Psychology > > Wallstrasse 3 > > 55122 Mainz > > Germany > > > > Phone ++49 (0) 6131 39 39274 > > Fax ++49 (0) 6131 39 39268 > > http://www.staff.uni-mainz.de/oberfeld/ > > https://www.facebook.com/WahrnehmungUndPsychophysikUniMainz > > > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and > may contain confidential information. If you have received this message i= n > error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do > not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in > any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this > email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingha= m. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your > computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email > communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as > permitted by UK legislation. > > --=20 Jennifer F. Linden, Ph.D. Reader in Neuroscience and Head of Neurophysiology & Computation Unit UCL Ear Institute 332 Gray's Inn Road London, WC1X 8EE Tel: +44 (0)20 7679 8928 (internal x28928) Alt Tel: +44 (0)20 7679 2451 (internal x32451) Fax: +44 (0)20 7837 9279 Email: j.linden@xxxxxxxx --089e0111d1dea002bd05062d4ca3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Beware, however, of interactions between nonlinearities in= your biological system and higher-order correlations in your stimulus that= persist even after application of decorrelation or regularization techniqu= es.<div><div><a href=3D"http://www.jneurosci.org/content/28/2/446.long">htt= p://www.jneurosci.org/content/28/2/446.long</a> </div></div><div class= =3D"gmail_extra"> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 23 October 2014 11:02, D= aniel Shub <<a href=3D"mailto:Daniel.Shub@xxxxxxxx= c.uk" target=3D"_blank">Daniel.Shub@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote:<= br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left= :1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"> <div> Theunissen and colleagues= (<a href=3D"http://www.jneurosci.org/content/20/6/2315.abstract" target=3D= "_blank">http://www.jneurosci.org/content/20/6/2315.abstract</a>) looked at the effect of stimulus correlation in reverse correlation. That work was b= ased on a number of previous studies. There is also a review by Wu and coll= eagues =C2=A0(<a href=3D"http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annur= ev.neuro.29.051605.113024" target=3D"_blank">http://www.annualreviews.org/d= oi/abs/10.1146/annurev.neuro.29.051605.113024</a>) that covers the use of natural stimuli in reverse correlation.</= u> =C2=A0</spa= n> Dan<= /p> =C2=A0</spa= n> <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> From:= AUDITORY - Research= in Auditory Perception [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_= blank">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a>] On Behalf Of Oberfeld-Twistel, = Daniel Sent: 23 October 2014 10:16 To: <a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">AU= DITORY@xxxxxxxx</a> Subject: Got the de Boer & Kuyper paper; question about correlat= ed stimulus components </div> </div><div><div class=3D"h5"> =C2=A0 Got it, th= ank you very much for you fast responses! =C2= =A0 A related = question: the classical reverse correlation technique usually uses the &quo= t;white noise" idea and assumes that all stimulus components (e.g., acoustic energy in different spectral regions, or all the picture elements= in an image) = are *uncorrelated*. In contrast, in studies on "psychophysical reverse= correlation", we use multiple regression analyses which are not affected by correlated cues/stimulus components (e.g., <a href=3D"http://d= x.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0050184" target=3D"_blank"> http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0050184</a>).</= p> =C2= =A0 Is anyone = aware of a technique for the "classical" reverse correlation as i= n the de Boer paper that can be used with correlated stimulus components?<u= > =C2= =A0 Best</u= > =C2= =A0 Daniel<= /u> =C2= =A0 <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm = 0cm 1.0pt 0cm"> =C2= =A0 </div> PD Dr. Daniel= Oberfeld-Twistel Johannes Gute= nberg - Universitaet Mainz Department= of Psychology Experiment= al Psychology Wallstrass= e 3 55122 Main= z Germany= =C2= =A0 Phone <a h= ref=3D"tel:%2B%2B49%20%280%29%206131%2039%2039274" value=3D"+4961313939274"= target=3D"_blank">++49 (0) 6131 39 39274</a> Fax=C2=A0= =C2=A0 <a href=3D"tel:%2B%2B49%20%280%29%206131%2039%2039268" value=3D"+496= 1313939268" target=3D"_blank">++49 (0) 6131 39 39268</a></spa= n> <a href=3D= "http://www.staff.uni-mainz.de/oberfeld/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.staf= f.uni-mainz.de/oberfeld/</a> <a href=3D"ht= tps://www.facebook.com/WahrnehmungUndPsychophysikUniMainz" target=3D"_blank= ">https://www.facebook.com/WahrnehmungUndPsychophysikUniMainz</a>= </div> =C2=A0= <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> From:</s= pan> AUDITORY - Research in Au= ditory Perception [<a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">= mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a>] On Behalf Of Karl Lerud Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:25 AM To: <a href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">AU= DITORY@xxxxxxxx</a> Subject: Re: Paper request: de Boer, E., & Kuyper, P. (1968). Tr= iggered correlation. IEEE Transactions on Biomedical Engineering, BM15(3), = 169-179. </div> </div> =C2=A0 Her= e it is. Looks interesting; should give it a read myself. Karl <div> On 10/23/2014 04:04 AM, Oberfeld-T= wistel, Daniel wrote: </div> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> Dear list,= =C2=A0</sp= an> does anyon= e happen to have access to this classical paper on reverse correlation and = could send me a PDF=E2=80=A6.?</span= > =C2=A0</sp= an> de Boer, E., = & Kuyper, P. (1968). Triggered correlation. IEE= E Transactions on Biomedical Engineering, BM15(3), 169-179. =C2=A0</sp= an> Best</span= > =C2=A0</sp= an> Daniel</sp= an> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm = 0cm 1.0pt 0cm"> =C2=A0</sp= an> </div> PD Dr. Daniel= Oberfeld-Twistel Johannes Gute= nberg - Universitaet Mainz</p= > Department= of Psychology Experiment= al Psychology Wallstrass= e 3 55122 Main= z Germany</s= pan> =C2=A0</sp= an> Phone <a h= ref=3D"tel:%2B%2B49%20%280%29%206131%2039%2039274" value=3D"+4961313939274"= target=3D"_blank">++49 (0) 6131 39 39274</a> Fax=C2=A0= =C2=A0 <a href=3D"tel:%2B%2B49%20%280%29%206131%2039%2039268" value=3D"+496= 1313939268" target=3D"_blank">++49 (0) 6131 39 39268</a> <a href=3D= "http://www.staff.uni-mainz.de/oberfeld/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.staf= f.uni-mainz.de/oberfeld/</a><= /p> <a href=3D"ht= tps://www.facebook.com/WahrnehmungUndPsychophysikUniMainz" target=3D"_blank= ">https://www.facebook.com/WahrnehmungUndPsychophysikUniMainz</a><sp= an lang=3D"DE"> </div> </blockquote> =C2=A0 </div> </div></div></div> </div> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee an= d may contain confidential information. If you have received this message i= n error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.=C2=A0=C2=A0 = Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.=C2=A0 Any views or opinion= s expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the view= s of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachm= ent may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer sys= tem, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with = the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. </div> </blockquote></div> <div> </div>-- <div dir=3D"= ltr">Jennifer F. Linden, Ph.D. Reader in Neuroscience and Head of Neurop= hysiology & Computation Unit UCL Ear Institute 332 Gray's Inn= Road London, WC1X 8EE Tel: +44 (0)20 7679 8928 (internal x28928)<div= >Alt Tel: +44 (0)20 7679 2451 (internal x32451) Fax: +44 (0)20 7837 9279= Email: <a href=3D"mailto:j.linden@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">j.linden= @xxxxxxxx</a></div></div> </div></div> --089e0111d1dea002bd05062d4ca3--

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